SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Wolfpack: the new multiplayer co-op U-boat simulation > Wolfpack
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2019, 12:35 PM   #16
Aktungbby
Gefallen Engel U-666
 
Aktungbby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: where I'm at presently
Posts: 14,569
Downloads: 18
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyguy3129 View Post
....you would be just as annoyed as me.
should be: "as I" let's use correct grammar!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
There is a difference between making critical comments and derogative comments. You seem to be doing the latter. In that case, yeah, proof that you can do it better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyguy3129 View Post
Also: The word you are looking for is "prove". If you want to talk down to people, better make sure you don't typo when you do it! There. Did that "proof" I can do better?
...especially when we presume to correct others. Otherwise there is the impression of a pompous, overbearing double-standard.
__________________
"Only two things are infinite: The Universe and human stupidity; And I'm not too sure about the Universe..." Philip K. Dick
Aktungbby is online   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 12:41 PM   #17
Slyguy3129
In the Brig
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 447
Downloads: 153
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackswan40 View Post
Delicate touch needed i fancy now then now then then now alrighty.

Hi Slyguy3129 On Subsim theres only one Onkel Neal (that has the patience of Angels).

Also there's at the last count fourteen Uncle Alberts that help members get their games and mods squared away also other kind souls that do the same.
for those guys and gals are the unsung heroes line chiefs of Onkel Neals Navy.

Has one downloaded the Wolfpack Manual if so has one had a indepth look at page nine no pun intended here old bean link below.

Re 2: Port/Starboard controls on the engines.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5471




If one had gathered the source data freely available in the Subsim Downloads then one would be in the know would'nt one.

PS Dont miss the bus!!!

Dynamic Single Player Campaign? One of the big three in my list.


You expect me to use one of my precious daily downloads in order to learn about a game?

Last edited by Slyguy3129; 04-22-2019 at 12:50 PM.
Slyguy3129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 12:44 PM   #18
Slyguy3129
In the Brig
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 447
Downloads: 153
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aktungbby View Post
should be: "as I" let's use correct grammar!


...especially when we presume to correct others. Otherwise there is the impression of a pompous, overbearing double-standard.

Yawn

If that's all you got in the defense of this game, no wonder it's in the shape it's in.
Slyguy3129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 05:40 PM   #19
Captain_AJ
Nact Morder U-77
 
Captain_AJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 631
Downloads: 270
Uploads: 0
Default HMM

Happy are those who would say.. this is not my cup of tea. However, I would disagree that this is an Arcade game for novices. and the coop crews so far as I have seen and played with do take sub siming as passionately as you seem to mention that you are. I believe that a coop of crews that are hardcore simmers been meeting on a regular basis and are becoming team members, working a simulated u-boat and a common goal.. MESSY ARE THOSE GAMES THAT DO PLAY WITHOUT ANY HISTORICAL BACKROUND.-- We all have opinions, But no one is stupid enough , at least the ones I have been playing wolfpack with are not the sheepherders --- IT is a crew based on real-time, that depends on other crew members to resolve an outcome-- of hunting a convoy, using historical information, and applying it and sinking SHIPS -- EVEN THIS IS PRACTISED IN REAL LIFE -- Open your eyes and try to reduce your pride -- Glad that you have an option-- everyone does, remember to respect those who enjoy and have developed a simulation that can bring people working as a team , with the same interest,,
__________________
Captain AJ

Captain_AJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 07:26 PM   #20
Slyguy3129
In the Brig
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 447
Downloads: 153
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_AJ View Post
Happy are those who would say.. this is not my cup of tea. However, I would disagree that this is an Arcade game for novices. and the coop crews so far as I have seen and played with do take sub siming as passionately as you seem to mention that you are. I believe that a coop of crews that are hardcore simmers been meeting on a regular basis and are becoming team members, working a simulated u-boat and a common goal.. MESSY ARE THOSE GAMES THAT DO PLAY WITHOUT ANY HISTORICAL BACKROUND.-- We all have opinions, But no one is stupid enough , at least the ones I have been playing wolfpack with are not the sheepherders --- IT is a crew based on real-time, that depends on other crew members to resolve an outcome-- of hunting a convoy, using historical information, and applying it and sinking SHIPS -- EVEN THIS IS PRACTISED IN REAL LIFE -- Open your eyes and try to reduce your pride -- Glad that you have an option-- everyone does, remember to respect those who enjoy and have developed a simulation that can bring people working as a team , with the same interest,,
When you are awake when your half of the planet is asleep and asleep when it is awake, it tends to be rather difficult to play a multiplayer game. Nobody wants to spend $60 on a game, and only be able to play it when other people want too.

I seem to remember how upset people were with Silent Hunter 5 with it's "always online" DRM. This isn't even Copy Protection, you need internet and other people just to play the game. I don't understand how that suddenly became "ok".

Essentially it seems like all this game has to offer is "You get to play with people in your boat with you", which sounds as much fun to me as "Mr. Slyguy3129, you have stage 4 cancer. You have hours to live."

I keep noticing no-one addressing the Single Play Campaign covering the whole war. Is it because this game is intended to be mission based. Quick 15 minute games (E-Sport standard) where you spawn in and the convoy is right there. Since the game has no TC from the sounds of it, the convoys can't be too far off. No searching for Convoys. No patrolling. Just spawn in, shoot torpedoes repeat. If I wanted that, I could just load up Silent Service 1 on the Nintendo Entertainment System. Which I do still play.
Slyguy3129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 11:07 AM   #21
abaileyatd
Watch
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Downloads: 18
Uploads: 0
Default

Dude. Seriously? Wolfpack is a game designed specifically for multi-player crews to cooperatively drive a German type 7 Uboat in a more detailed and accurate fashion than ever.

Silent Hunter et al are games designed to be played by yourself in single player with a broader control scheme for the boat itself.

They are two different games, two different philosophies, and two different goals that happen to be in the same setting.

IF YOU DON'T WANT A MULTIPLAYER GAME DON'T PLAY IT! We aren't trying to convince you to LOVE Wolfpack! Wolfpack is a multiplayer game! By design! Game developers are not bound to create the exact game you want, they make the game that either THEY WANT or they think other people want. And you know what? Obviously this game isn't for everyone, but for those who it was designed for IT IS PERFECT.

It's like you are purposefully being dense about this.

PS. Re-reading your post above I am seriously thinking you have literally not looked into this game any further than "Its multiplayer, UGH". It is NOT multiplayer Silent Hunter, which wouldn't make any sense. In Wolfpack you TURN WHEELS and SWING LEVERS, not just hit "P". It takes multiple people to do this with speed and accuracy, just as in real life. And if you had looked into any games, you'd see this game is DEFINITELY NOT 15 minute arcade games. Seems like 2 hours is minimum for most serious games, and I've been in ones that lasted more than twice that. You do not start in visual range of the convoy, but need to use your hydrophones to locate them (most accurate and detailed hydrophones I've ever seen in a subsim BY THE WAY). Why am I explaining this to you? All of this is obvious to even a casual observer of the game. I believe your mind is made up and you are not interested in doing anything but blowing off your steam and letting everyone know "how mad you are"

Last edited by abaileyatd; 04-23-2019 at 11:17 AM.
abaileyatd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 06:02 PM   #22
Slyguy3129
In the Brig
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 447
Downloads: 153
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abaileyatd View Post
Dude. Seriously? Wolfpack is a game designed specifically for multi-player crews to cooperatively drive a German type 7 Uboat in a more detailed and accurate fashion than ever.

Silent Hunter et al are games designed to be played by yourself in single player with a broader control scheme for the boat itself.

They are two different games, two different philosophies, and two different goals that happen to be in the same setting.

IF YOU DON'T WANT A MULTIPLAYER GAME DON'T PLAY IT! We aren't trying to convince you to LOVE Wolfpack! Wolfpack is a multiplayer game! By design! Game developers are not bound to create the exact game you want, they make the game that either THEY WANT or they think other people want. And you know what? Obviously this game isn't for everyone, but for those who it was designed for IT IS PERFECT.

It's like you are purposefully being dense about this.

PS. Re-reading your post above I am seriously thinking you have literally not looked into this game any further than "Its multiplayer, UGH". It is NOT multiplayer Silent Hunter, which wouldn't make any sense. In Wolfpack you TURN WHEELS and SWING LEVERS, not just hit "P". It takes multiple people to do this with speed and accuracy, just as in real life. And if you had looked into any games, you'd see this game is DEFINITELY NOT 15 minute arcade games. Seems like 2 hours is minimum for most serious games, and I've been in ones that lasted more than twice that. You do not start in visual range of the convoy, but need to use your hydrophones to locate them (most accurate and detailed hydrophones I've ever seen in a subsim BY THE WAY). Why am I explaining this to you? All of this is obvious to even a casual observer of the game. I believe your mind is made up and you are not interested in doing anything but blowing off your steam and letting everyone know "how mad you are"

Isn't that the point of forums? To let the people who are making the game know whether you are happy with their design decisions or not? Please correct me if I have misunderstood the entire point.



Again, I'm so very thrilled that some of you out there are getting the exact game you have always wanted. And again, that must be a wonderful, warm fuzzy feeling to get. Must be nice!



By acting like I don't have any right to be upset and express my severe displeasure means you don't want me to have the game that I eventually would very much like to have while you get to piddle around in the game you've always wanted. It's pretty easy to be "pig in slop" happy when you have the game you want. It's not easy to be "pig in slop" happy when it seems like every single day Submarine Simulations get more and more rare, and the chances of you ever getting the game you've dreamed of for 30 years gets more and more extinct.
__________________________________________________ ______________




But anyways, I just dropped in to be fair. Since I was so very hyper critical of the other, I notice a new advertisement banner on the top of the page. It does a far, far better job at selling the product they are making. In fact, just reading it, almost got me excited for it.


I won't be buying it, there won't be any way for me to play it. I can only hope that because this game gets made, maybe, if I beg, and plead, and cry, next time, I can get the game I wanted.










































But knowing my universal luck, right before that game goes gold, I'll die.
Slyguy3129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 11:10 PM   #23
Giesemaschine
Sailor man
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PNW
Posts: 50
Downloads: 55
Uploads: 0
Default

Yeesh, tough crowd but I understand the frustration.


My DREAM subsim would be a modern-remake of Aces of the Deep - what a SP campaign that had! However, to lump Wolfpack in with the fortnite/arcade/MMO bullcrap crowd is not fair to the game.


I've cut my teeth on Aces of the Deep, Jane's 688i, all of the Silent Hunters (especially 1 and 3 with the GWX mod), Shells of Fury, etc. In 20+ years of subsimming I've never once had to walk up to the valves, flood both the forward and aft #2/4 main ballast tanks, blow the negative tank while passing periscope depth and then trim for dive.

I have to do that in Wolfpack. What is arcade about that procedure exactly? More arcade than pressing "P" in SH to submerge to periscope depth? "C" for crash dive?

I can plan, coordinate and pull off an attack with manual TDC and plotting tools in Wolfpack just how I do with SH3 - and Wolfpack doesn't even have an "auto lock" for targets that will compute the solution for you like SH3 has. Everything in this game is manually done, and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll be sinking nothing.

Does Wolfpack have the dynamic SP campaign from Aces of the Deep I crave? No. And I so so wish it did. But for now what I am playing is certainly not an arcade, but an atmospheric, technically-detailed and FUN subsim.

If it wasn't a sim, It would have been wiped off my hard drive by now. Trust me.


P.S. did I mention I hate fortnite?
Giesemaschine is online   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 11:46 PM   #24
Slyguy3129
In the Brig
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 447
Downloads: 153
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesemaschine View Post
Yeesh, tough crowd but I understand the frustration.


My DREAM subsim would be a modern-remake of Aces of the Deep - what a SP campaign that had! However, to lump Wolfpack in with the fortnite/arcade/MMO bullcrap crowd is not fair to the game.


I've cut my teeth on Aces of the Deep, Jane's 688i, all of the Silent Hunters (especially 1 and 3 with the GWX mod), Shells of Fury, etc. In 20+ years of subsimming I've never once had to walk up to the valves, flood both the forward and aft #2/4 main ballast tanks, blow the negative tank while passing periscope depth and then trim for dive.

I have to do that in Wolfpack. What is arcade about that procedure exactly? More arcade than pressing "P" in SH to submerge to periscope depth? "C" for crash dive?

I can plan, coordinate and pull off an attack with manual TDC and plotting tools in Wolfpack just how I do with SH3 - and Wolfpack doesn't even have an "auto lock" for targets that will compute the solution for you like SH3 has. Everything in this game is manually done, and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll be sinking nothing.

Does Wolfpack have the dynamic SP campaign from Aces of the Deep I crave? No. And I so so wish it did. But for now what I am playing is certainly not an arcade, but an atmospheric, technically-detailed and FUN subsim.

If it wasn't a sim, It would have been wiped off my hard drive by now. Trust me.


P.S. did I mention I hate fortnite?
By Fortnite/arcade/MMO I mean it is designed in the same exact way. An instance built by the game as a preset scenario to drop people into. It can only have so many variations. No dropping in a port and finding the convoy. Designed to not be too time consuming. No surprises.

God I loved 688i. I don't know what was more fun, playing the game, or making your Commander lose his mind. Man I miss that game.

I'd gladly give all that up, for a single player campaign. I guess the whole "walking around thing" has gotten old hat to me since 1991 and Doom. I wasn't impressed with it in SH5 (that I was smart enough not to get ripped off by. I still shudder when I read the SH5 forum. We lost 4 entire years of the war, just to walk. Yay?) and it doesn't impress me here. I'm still a bit lost as to why it's such a big deal. But graphics have never been something to easily impress me.

You can't do that in SH4, because you are not some lowly Petty Officer, you are the Captain. It's not the Captain's job to do everything on the boat. It's why submarines have crews.

I'm perfectly fine with Pressing "P" to get stuff done, and have a Single Player Campaign, multiple different boats, actually hunting, not needing to play online, being able to role play, following my crew's career, being able to upgrade my boat, getting more missions than "go here, sink stuff, don't go boom",surprise aircraft attack, Time Compression (Because if I wanted, I could sail around the globe), sinking more tonnage than Japan could have built in 3 WW2s(ok maybe not that one lol), but I think you catch my drift.

I guess what I'm saying is I see what all was sacrificed, so that we could "walk", and turn knobs, and play with squeakers, and I'm just not impressed. I don't see how people can be. It looks like a 30 year giant step backwards.

Oh I know. If I have one more tennybopper say to me "You play video games? So you play fortnite?!?!" you will be seeing me on the news.
Slyguy3129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 01:56 AM   #25
abaileyatd
Watch
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Downloads: 18
Uploads: 0
Default

Guy, the game you describe has been made a million times... A game like Wolfpack has never existed before. Every single thing you describe is available right now in existing games. If you want a single player campaign with upgradable boats and time compression... why not Sh3, SH4, or Sh5 or whatever other subsim game? And if you're not willing to throw mods on these then you aren't willing to get what you want.

It is patently ridiculous to compare Wolfpack to Fortnite or MMO games. Wolfpack is an insanely detailed hardcore simulation of a type VII uboat that is a passion project developed by a tiny independent developer. It just happens to not have the scope and specific features YOU want. It isn't multiplayer to share achievements on facebook, nor do you have to pay microtransactions for custom Kreigsmarine hats or upgraded torpedoes... It is only multiplayer because one person cannot effectively control an entire boat by themselves when the controls are broken down to such narrow and realistic methods.

Honestly, if you aren't impressed by updated graphics, you don't want more in depth boat controls than pressing "p", and you don't care to walk around the boat... What would a Silent Hunter 6 possibly offer you that isn't already out there?
abaileyatd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 01:32 PM   #26
Slyguy3129
In the Brig
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 447
Downloads: 153
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abaileyatd View Post
Guy, the game you describe has been made a million times... A game like Wolfpack has never existed before. Every single thing you describe is available right now in existing games. If you want a single player campaign with upgradable boats and time compression... why not Sh3, SH4, or Sh5 or whatever other subsim game? And if you're not willing to throw mods on these then you aren't willing to get what you want.

It is patently ridiculous to compare Wolfpack to Fortnite or MMO games. Wolfpack is an insanely detailed hardcore simulation of a type VII uboat that is a passion project developed by a tiny independent developer. It just happens to not have the scope and specific features YOU want. It isn't multiplayer to share achievements on facebook, nor do you have to pay microtransactions for custom Kreigsmarine hats or upgraded torpedoes... It is only multiplayer because one person cannot effectively control an entire boat by themselves when the controls are broken down to such narrow and realistic methods.

Honestly, if you aren't impressed by updated graphics, you don't want more in depth boat controls than pressing "p", and you don't care to walk around the boat... What would a Silent Hunter 6 possibly offer you that isn't already out there?

Yes it has. It's called Star Trek VR Crew or whatever. This is the samething, with a WW2 coat of paint. And without the VR (which I'm hoping is just a fad). I'm not saying these guys stole the idea. But this game definitely exist.

Silent Hunter 3 is old and isn't played much anymore. SH4 is a buggy joke of a mess. Silent Hunter 5 was a rip off I was smart enough not to get had by.

The modding community here has suddenly become very "get off my lawn" and doesn't seem to want to help the actual community. In their defense I remember when their work was getting stolen and placed into paid DLCs.

I've got plenty of mods, and made a good number of my own for myself. You can't fix the foundation of a house by slapping a fresh coat of paint on it.

What could Silent Hunter 6 do that 3-5 haven't? Actually work. Not be left with tons of bugs we have no way of fixing for lack of Developer Tools, and Copyright Laws. It could be a game where you can play a fleet boat or a uboat. With DLCs to add the RN, and IJN subs, and others people would love to see.

And that's just off the top of my head mate.

And again this boils down to: You have the game you want, but you don't want me to have the game I want.

Last edited by Slyguy3129; 04-24-2019 at 03:10 PM.
Slyguy3129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 05:13 PM   #27
abaileyatd
Watch
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Downloads: 18
Uploads: 0
Default

No it boils down to you are throwing a temper tantrum. Your explanations and arguments are ridiculous. So be it!
abaileyatd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2019, 05:35 AM   #28
U56
Helmsman
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockall
Posts: 103
Downloads: 91
Uploads: 0
Default

You have the game you want, but you don't want me to have the game I want.

Stop throwing your toys out of the cot, and do a bit of growing up. Most of us would LUV you to have the game you want, but having temper tantrums because small indie developers don't give you exactly the game you want is not going to get you anywhere.

Unless a major games manufacturer gets interested in the sub sim genre, it is unlikely we will see another game like SH6. That does not make me happy, but them's the facts!!
U56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2019, 01:01 PM   #29
Lanzfeld
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Tripoli, PA
Posts: 983
Downloads: 64
Uploads: 0
Default

I actually kind of agree with SlyGuy3129.

I’ve been around here as long as anyone. Longer mostly......... and he’s just giving his opinion. He’s a bit frustrated and I understand. I’ve suffered through all the multiple hyped up releases that we went through and it’s just kind of taught me to lower my expectations.

I will be fair. I tried Wolfpack at the beginning and it seems promising if multiplayer is your thing. But I honestly believe the hard-core sub summers will eventually grow very tired of the multiplayer aspect. It’s the hot, new thing right now but eventually it’ll die out, in my prediction, quicker than most sub games.

What I think he wants, and I know that I want, is a game as detailed as wolfpack with the systems of a submarine, modeled in detail, that we can we play completely single player. Something where the artificial intelligence will work the systems with a competence level equal to their experience and if we needed to take over manually we could do so. I wanted that far longer than I can remember.

I’m not going to bash the Wolfpack developers and I wish them the best. I just wish we could get this kind of detail in a single player game. I really dislike multiplayer
Lanzfeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2019, 03:41 PM   #30
Elphaba
Neptune's daughter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 286
Downloads: 142
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyguy3129 View Post
Isn't that the point of forums? To let the people who are making the game know whether you are happy with their design decisions or not? Please correct me if I have misunderstood the entire point.

I won't be buying it, there won't be any way for me to play it. I can only hope that because this game gets made, maybe, if I beg, and plead, and cry, next time, I can get the game I wanted.

But knowing my universal luck, right before that game goes gold, I'll die.
Do you have any ability to conceive of how entitled you sound?

You have completely missed the point, but don't worry, I'll correct you.

This was ALWAYS designed, pitched and developed as a multiplayer real time session based game.

If you don't like that. Fine.

You do NOT however get to rant, whine and moan about it.

This is simply a case of a product that is not for you, of which I'm sure that are already a billion other products made around the world, that are not specifically designed for and will not suit you.

The fact that the devs have had their arms twisted to add AI BOTS, especially in preference to other much needed content, which will probably mean it will become a single player friendly game, means some people have moaned loudly enough... but that's not good enough for you is it? You don't want this game at all... you want a totally different game - one that has not ever been built or designed, or pitched. One that has to be made for you otherwise everything else that gets released is going to get an angry little tantrum about it, right?

You've said you create mods. Well great. Go make the game you want. Can't do that or won't? Ok, fine, use some of your money and pay some devs to do it for you.

You have options.

You only have to look at the depth this game has (see recent Nav plotting turns underwater video on YouTube) - far more than SH3,4 or 5 - to see it's potential. Hell, the Navigator alone has a huge amount to do and that's before the rest of the game is built!

You can run around this ship like an idiot trying to do all the roles yourself, but that's never been how a real sub operates nor is it that much fun. Sure, today alone I've had several online games with idiots, trolls and small men swinging their tiny d**ks around like they owned the place, but for all those, there are people who want to learn and excel at each station, who take their time and learn something more than some silly game demanding that you click here or press this key to crash dive.

Do you have any idea the coordination and wondrous thing of beauty it is when a team of 3 or 4 crash dive a sub properly under control? No, you don't, because you want to press C instead.

And that's fine.

You complain about 1/2 the planet being asleep when you're awake. You do realise one of the team behind this game lives in your time zone and there are weekly games IN YOUR TIMEZONE don't you? Or are you just whining without any facts?

But regardless, this game isn't for you and as such you should have zero opinion on it. In fact I'd go as far as to say that unless it directly impacts your life, then it's utterly irrelevant what you think, what you want. You're not the devs. It's not your vision. It's not a game for you.

Go look at Uboat. Or build your own.

There's nothing for you to see here, nor for you to comment on. I don't go on forums for Doom or Fortnite and whine that they aren't a true Mil Sim!

This year, we have 2 very different brand new sub games. And you're still unhappy? Meh.

Remember, opinions, especially pointless, useless ones are like rectums. Everyone's got one, and usually only rubbish comes out of it.
Elphaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2019 Subsim