Bubbly bitcoin not worth the wager: investors

[Gerald]

LONDON (Reuters) - Bitcoin may have surged a staggering 700 percent since the start of the year but most investors at a Reuters Summit this week said they had not been tempted to play the volatile cryptocurrency.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1DH249

700 percent in one year.

[Buddahaid]

Just like my chances of not getting laid....

[Skybird]

The Bitcoin is no investment in the classical meaning of the term, but a gamble for the sake of the gamble, and not more. You can get away with it, like you could get away with a bet you place in the casino. But you also could get surprised by a sudden major or all-loss. In the end, the bitcoin's has an intrinsic value for nill, it is paper money without paper. Its a game people play , not a money in the meaning of the word "value-covered money". In other words: its Quatsch. Influential, popular Quatsch, and if you are ruthless and do not think it thorugh, you can make a fortune with it maybe, but Quatsch it is nevertheless. And the costs of this latest folly of paper money dreamers, will be needed to be paid one day, there is no forgiving.

I have moral problems with modern "investing" without investing for real. In the end, that is always just plundering. Real investments are not about just shaving off profits by plundering the host, but engaging in building and construction of the thing one invests into it. Its aboit growth and prospering of the thing. Today's investing is predatory, original investing was constructive, and cared for what one invested in.

This is not understood today. And that is one of the main reasons why the financial business is where it is, and why evertyhing is over the cliff. Classical national economists understood this. Austrian economists understand this. Modern bankers and FIAT money apostles do not understand this.

[ikalugin]

There is no intrinsic value, as value is a subjective construct.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Skybird

...Today's investing is predatory, original investing was constructive, and cared for what one invested in....

It has always been predatory. The world moves on and different ways of making money will always open, and close. Everything, including your vaunted gold standard, is of arbitrary value.

[Skybird]

There is no intrinsic value, but then there is. Its - a bit complicated.

https://smilingdavesblog.wordpress.c...trinsic-value/

I know that things have no intrinsic value. Only the value attributed by market participants. Still, as the short article explains, "Austrians" nevertheless talk of intrinsic value, but they mena something special with it. Its context-sensitive.

Read that article, its not long.

[STEED]

Just another lie like I.O.U paper money.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

There is no intrinsic value, but then there is. Its - a bit complicated.

https://smilingdavesblog.wordpress.c...trinsic-value/

I know that things have no intrinsic value. Only the value attributed by market participants. Still, as the short article explains, "Austrians" nevertheless talk of intrinsic value, but they mena something special with it. Its context-sensitive.

Read that article, its not long.

What is described as "intrinsic" value is more or less irrelevant in case of money in my opinion, as you cant eat gold.

(and I am not a big fan of Mises)

[Skybird]

You cannot eat gold, but you an eat what you can barter for it. And in times of troubles, valuables of higher intrinsic value will always trade you more to eat than items of zero in troinsic value. Every inflation and hyperinflation, every time of big wars and collapse of state orders, is my witness. Since millenia.

Planned state economies cannot be maintained without inflationary created paper money. Politicians cannot corrupt their voiter pools without ifnlaitonary created paper money. Thats why the illusion is kept alive, and that is why politicians love Keynes and hate Hayek. The one was a big mouth, blender and imposter. The other was an intellectually brilliant and universally well-educated mind and a man of very, very wise heart. People like Keynes we have many today, the central banks create them by the legions. Men like Hayek we have almost none.

First pape rmoeny expeiment was run by the Chinese in the 12th century. It failed terirbly, and turned the kingdom into a war-hautned mess. Then for centuries nobody was dumb enough to try it again. When in more recnt times it was tried again and again, it always - ALWAYS - failed again. It must, for worthless pieces of paper with no intrinsic value will always return to their real intrinisc value, no matter what numbers the state prints on them: zero. One could as well cloaim that socialism-communism works if only this, if only that. It never has, and never will, because it cannot and never could in the first. If you design a plane but violate the laws of nature and physics all along, you must fail as well, and every time: it will never fly, no matter how much you tell people the opposite. The functioning of so-called market is as adamanetly predeterm ined, you cannot violate the laws of the makret and expcet to endlessly get away with it. The bills will be paid - down to every final nickle and every last dime.

[Skybird]

You cannot eat gold, but you an eat what you can barter for it. And in times of troubles, valuables of higher intrinsic value will always trade you more to eat than items of zero in troinsic value. Every inflation and hyperinflation, every time of big wars and collapse of state orders, is my witness. Since millenia.

Planned state economies cannot be maintained without inflationary created paper money. Politicians cannot corrupt their voiter pools without ifnlaitonary created paper money. Thats why the illusion is kept alive, and that is why politicians love Keynes and hate Hayek. The one was a big mouth, blender and imposter. The other was an intellectually brilliant and universally well-educated mind and a man of very, very wise heart. People like Keynes we have many today, the central banks create them by the legions. Men like Hayek we have almost none. Or Mises. We only know that we could esperately need them, and should listen to them. Marx und Keynes only led us into disaster after disaster.

First paper moeny expeiment was run by the Chinese in the 12th century. It failed terribly, and turned the kingdom into a war-haunted mess. Then for centuries nobody was dumb enough to try it again. When in more recent times it was tried again and again, it always - ALWAYS - failed again. It must, for worthless pieces of paper with no intrinsic value will always return to their real intrinisc value, no matter what numbers the state prints on them: zero. Already noted by Voltaire in a famous quote. One could as well claim that socialism-communism works if only this, if only that. Historic fact is: it never has worked, and never will, because it cannot and never could in the first. If you design a plane but violate the laws of nature and physics all along, you must fail as well, and every time: it will never fly, no matter how much you tell people the opposite. The functioning of so-called market is as adamanetly predeterm ined, you cannot violate the laws of the makret and expcet to endlessly get away with it. The bills will be paid - down to every final nickle and every last dime.

[Gerald]

Update: Breakingviews TV: Bitcoin going legit!!!

https://www.reuters.com/video/2017/1...videoChannel=1

[Skybird]

More and more people realise that the paper money system is collapsing right now in slo motion, that it it counterfeit "money". And that politicians and government controlling what money is and what not, is part of the problem.

What many people do not relaise is that states, as long as püeople submissvely obey to their claimed authpority, can and will prohibit rivalling currency models if they threaten their core interests. Like they have banned gold, so they will ban crypto currencies. It is not difficult, since it is all digital, nothing material. Thats why government want to delete cash "money", so that people must go all digital - it means people are utmost vulnerable and completely defenceless to any measurements taken by the state.

If you want a trustworthy and solid money system you have to take politicians, states, central banks out of the equation and must destroy their options to have any influence or control on the definition and "creation" of money. In other words: you must end having a planned economy, because that is what state-defined money is: planned eocnomy.

Instead, we will get the opposite. Because the vast majority of people allow it.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

More and more people realise that the paper money system is collapsing right now in slo motion, that it it counterfeit "money". And that politicians and government controlling what money is and what not, is part of the problem.

What many people do not relaise is that states, as long as püeople submissvely obey to their claimed authpority, can and will prohibit rivalling currency models if they threaten their core interests. Like they have banned gold, so they will ban crypto currencies. It is not difficult, since it is all digital, nothing material. Thats why government want to delete cash "money", so that people must go all digital - it means people are utmost vulnerable and completely defenceless to any measurements taken by the state.

If you want a trustworthy and solid money system you have to take politicians, states, central banks out of the equation and must destroy their options to have any influence or control on the definition and "creation" of money. In other words: you must end having a planned economy, because that is what state-defined money is: planned eocnomy.

Instead, we will get the opposite. Because the vast majority of people allow it.

Was only a matter of time Sky perhaps?

"Highly professional" hackers made off with around 4,700 Bitcoin from a leading mining service, a Bitcoin exchange has said.
The value of Bitcoin is currently extremely volatile, but at the time of writing, the amount stolen was worth approximately $80m.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42275523

[Skybird]

Yes, of course, only a matter of time.

Now imagine the interest oif govenbrments and centrla banks to manipulate these "cryptocurrencies" to support their financial policies and ideologies. I never beleived that Bitcoin is the final word in safety. Its computer code, and code can be cracked, stolen, manipulated, replaced. And governments will do it. Its in their interest. It is as unavoidably as is the devaluing of any paper money scheme you could ever have. Like I am convinced that they also manipulate the general niveau of gold price to keep it down - and its alarm function silent. This too is in governments interest: to let paper money and state bonds appear as something to be preferred. Without these crimes going on, states would immediately collapse, so would the economic system. Its all build on cheats and betrayal, lies and illusions.

Von nichts kommt nichts. What is so difficult to understand in that: from nothing comes nothing.

[Gerald]

Update:

LONDON/NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bitcoin lost almost a fifth of its value in 10 hours on Friday, having surged more than 40 percent in the preceding 48 hours, sparking fears the market may be heading for a price collapse.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-m...-idUSKBN1E11YT

Normal?