[TEC] Wings3D - Editing of existing 3D models

[padmack]

Hello to all,

I am trying my hand at Wings3D for both the creating of new objects and the editing of said existing ones within SHIV. The latter is proving to be difficult for me as I am self-teaching myself the required skills.

Tutorials exist but i have not found the information I am am looking for, alas.

I have imported a .obj (boat hull) into wings and as it is stripped down I now am required to change its attributes to match that of the scaled down image plane. How do I, for example, adjust the height of the bow to match that of the drawing? I have tried bridging faces but this makes a mess of vertices and I get odd shapes that one must assume will be a curse to texture. Is there a simple, straight forward way of altering a group of selected vertices/faces/edges to stretch, bend or twist them to a required shape? Am I better off collapsing and extruding from other, say deck faces?

Also, at the risk of hijacking my own thread, a question on cloning. Does one still require Pack3D to clone or can it all be done through silent 3ditor?

I look forward to your sage responses.

[padmack]

Im really struggling trying to adjust the keel, and hull sides to the drawing on three planes of axis.

What is the key here??? It must not be as hard as it appears as none of the online help seems to deal with it! I do realise it would have been easier if I constructed the hull from a cube from scratch but I have heard other people talking about modifying existing hulls from SH3/SH4 so I thought id give it a try.

Im starting to get the shape of the bow but its a nightmare trying to move a single vertex accurately in 3D! Surely this is childsplay but...

Any help would be appreciated.

[the_frog]

Hello,

a few comments, hpe they may help:

-- Note, the scale in Silent Hunter is 1/10 of that in Wings3D. So, if your model size is 4.45, that equals 44.5 m.
-- Scaling can be done by entering the desired dimensions using the "absolute cammands" menue.
-- Before importing plans, better make them match each other using an image editor, e.g., pain.NET.
-- When trying to make the model matching the plan, move vertex by vertex while changing view/perspective.
-- All original models in SH are edge separated for better rendering. That makes extruding/collapsing certain faces not truly recommendable. Better move vertices, but take care to move all vertices at one spot.
-- Manipulating models usually works better when not triangulated (Face mode: tesselate -> untriangulate)
-- I started also trying to edit existing models, which can be rather tricky. Later, I learned it's much faster to do models from scratch ...

[iambecomelife]

The quick way to create a forecastle is to select the vertices of the bow using the "select adjacent vertices" button ( blue cube with the red dots near the top of the window) and then move the mouse upwards. Same goes for the stern if you want to create a poop deck. To adjust a ship's cross section, select the vertices of the ship's side with the "adjacent vertices" function and move the mouse left or right, as needed.

Try using "View --> Workmode" and then "Toggle Wireframe" so that you can view a transparent wireframe of the model - this makes following plans much easier because you can see more vertices while manipulating the model.

You may have to triangulate the model before importing into SH3/4 with s3ditor or pack3d - otherwise, the importation program will probably refuse to accept the model.

You PM'ed about railings and telegraph wires? Most of my wiring is really cubes shrunk to look like wires by using the "scale radial ---. Z axis function. If I want to give wires a parabolic shape (sagging like telephone wires do) I select the sides of the cube, right click, and use "plane cut" ---> "Z" axis several times. This splits the cube so you can bend it downwards in the middle like a real wire. For railings I use shrunken & enlongated cubes and use the "rotate around "Y" axis" function so that they match the shape of the ship hull. It can be tedious but the more time you take the better the ship looks. I hope this helps.


I agree that it's a good idea to try making ships from scratch instead of using an existing model, like I did for the "Merchant Fleet Mod" ships. It was a lot less intimidating than I thought it would be, and I wish I had started doing it a long time ago.

[padmack]

I thank you for your help. This was of a lot of assistance - primarily the suggestion to build from scratch which is not only easier but very satisfying. I sucked into a project and got carried away for hours!

It does however raise a number of questions;
what is a realistic polycount, or rather, what is the limit and how do I monitor polys in wings?
Also, by scratch building how are nodes applied to the model prior to placing into the SH world? I presume by importing to silent 3ditor but is the model of an original model replaced by my new one, say, or again are nodes created from scratch?

I am thinking way too far ahead but im eager to get a model built and "seaworthy" for testing so I can hone my skills.

This is a 1888 fishing trawler in the making;

[Archer7seven]

Oh MY F!

It's like digital legos.

That's great.

Originally Posted by padmack

[...] I sucked into a project and got carried away for hours!

I made the same mistake, and now I just can't leave it. I'm addicted

Originally Posted by padmack

It does however raise a number of questions;
what is a realistic polycount, or rather, what is the limit and how do I monitor polys in wings?
Also, by scratch building how are nodes applied to the model prior to placing into the SH world? I presume by importing to silent 3ditor but is the model of an original model replaced by my new one, say, or again are nodes created from scratch?

I think it's easier to use one of the stock models, because creating a new ship from scratch with all its nodes can be very tricky. First you should clone a ship similar to the one you're building, and then import your own models and change and move whatever nodes you consider.

If you check the original ships in the game you will get a general idea of how the nodes work. Usually one main node for the hull and superstructures, masts and funnels in their own nodes, a reflection (low poly) model, etc.

Originally Posted by padmack

I am thinking way too far ahead but im eager to get a model built and "seaworthy" for testing so I can hone my skills.

This is a 1888 fishing trawler in the making;

That looks great .

Seeing your own newly created ship navigating the (dangerous) SH4 oceans is very rewarding .

[padmack]

Update: Still working on UV mapping the upper deck structures. I need to tackle its processing into SH4 through S3D. Any pointers here would be greatly welcomed as I forsee a myriad of problems for a scratchbuilt ship.

[the_frog]

Hello,

1. Create separate models, at least of those things that have functions, such as rudder, propeller. Consider also also a separate model of the funnel. However, the funnel is not nescessary; you can also use a dummy node for the smoke. Mast and other things can go with the main model. If you prefer to have them destructible, you have to have them as separate models. Personally, I dislike flying masts and boats as well as expoding bridges.

2. When exporting the models with that many materials, make sure you have them all in the *.dat file. Beter create texture chart with most of the materials on.

3. Consider combining all submodels before exporting a model to *.obj.

4. In-game rendering can be improved by detaching faces at hard edges. Easy way to do is importing the *.obj file into Blender, applying the Edge Split Modifier, then re-exporting the *.obj file.

Hope that helps a bit.

[zakarpatska]

I've been messing around with S3D and this thread seemed like a good place to ask a question that I have.

How do you know how something like the conning tower or the deck gun is positioned on the hull? The hull nodes seem to be positioned relative to one another, but I'm not sure how to figure out how to figure out the position of the different models (such as the deck gun) on the hull.

I'm not sure if I am being especially dense, but I've searched the web and I couldn't find an explanation. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[padmack]

After a few years off, I decided to get back into my 3d modelling. Before dunking my head under the soup I thought I'd try finish what I started already. So I finished off the above ship and am currently trying to get it into SH3. I've managed to get it into S3d and have removed and added nodes as necessary. I struggled through the process of getting the rudder and prop to animate properly - some hilarious results cropper up. It's a learning curve to say the least.

However I've only managed to get this model to appear in sh4. Albeit with missing textures as I never intended to use with SH4, the model behaves as it should with the cloned val and sim values. I didn't bother making adjustments until all was well. I use a different machine for my gwx setup in sh3 so I thought it would be easy to get this added in. But the library crashes everything and I can't see what is causing it.

Are there any pitfalls here I should be aware of. Like I say I've combed through the various nodes in the dat and I've copied from other dats for simplicity. If I need to I can upload the dat maybe for one of the old hats to have a look? I need to learn about the sh3 nuances. I would have thought the earlier software would be simpler!

Any help here greatly appreciated.