GER politics thread

[Skybird]

Bavarian elections.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45857699

"Honest election results", calculating non-voters into final standings:

[Catfish]

70 percent of the people voting, this is bad but also 'normal' since some time. The AfD with its leader Neonazi Hoecke, before the SPD, this is really worrying.


(Google translate)

The vision of the AfD leader

"Höcke in fact holds little of basic and human rights as well as the separation of powers and parliamentarism. For him, "Western values" are "inflated value foam" (p. 199). "The party spirit must be overcome, the inner unity must be established," he says. (288) End the "Western-decadent liberalism and the escalating party rule"! (285) It should be replaced by "a demanding and supportive political elite that awakens our national spirits." (286)"

[...] he doubts that "a nation is even able to extract itself from the swamp". (286) "It takes a strong personality and a firm hand on a long leash to tame the centrifugal forces and bring them together in a political momentum." (231)

Höcke makes it clear that the aim of his exclusion of parts of the population from the "people" is not just the migrants. Höcke does not leave it to agitate in open-right-radical tone for the fight against the alleged "impending national death by the population exchange" (216). He also advocates drastic measures with regard to the people of pure German descent.
"'Sturdy limbs can not be cured with lavender water', Hegel already knew". (254) Höcke states in his intended change that "unfortunately we will lose some parts of the people who are too weak or unwilling" to participate. (257)
Höcke thinks of a "bloodletting" and indicates that those Germans who disagree with his political projects are excluded from Höckes Germany. The way in which this should happen is left to the imagination. Alternatively, the options of migration, deprivation, criminalization or liquidation appears before the mind's eye."


and so on and so on. Where have we heard that before.
I meanwhile think that there is more needed than a democratic.. reluctance, towards this type.

But with the successors of Cambridge Analytics, Steve Bannon coming to Europe, Nigel Farage, and their intended goal to destroy democratic party systems who knows what will happen.

[Skybird]

The competition of pied pipers - ban not just one of them, ban them ALL. Ban all parties and professional politicians who made it their way of earning an income "to do politics" all life long. What would change if the AfD goes away? Nothing. Not just the AfD - ALL of them have to go. It were the others who made the AfD possible, who fostered it, who called it into life.

"Whoso would be a man, must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore it if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. Absolve you to yourself, and you shall have the suffrage of the world." - Ralph Waldo Emerson: "Self Reliance".



This essay by Emerson, which is probably his most famous one, is some of the most valuable and precious pieces of text I have ever read, a real wake-up call . And very modern, it is a crushing verdict for our modern present and the servile attitude it commands people to praise as social ideal.

[Catfish]

I already expected you to applaud Hoecke.

After all he has nothing else in mind than in abolishing parties and democracy altogether, when his time comes.


^ which is of course polemic..
But really, knwoing how man or "the humans" think and act, what would you propose as a better system. Anarchy? A kingdom? All this becomes philosophy..

If everyone "cooks his own soup" and is nonconformist and individual, there can be no egalitarian justice as well. How can inventions be made? The times of the lone inventor in his lab inventing something alone has long gone, and i dare say it is not possible anymore when it comes to medicine, or complex machinery. It all is a group effort nowadays.

Next thing regarding revolution theory of e.g. Marcuse, does a revolution, even if ending like intended, is worth the bloodshed, and are the conditions really better then for the average human being? This also applies for 'brexit', or any constitutional change.

[Skybird]

The German question is back.

https://translate.google.de/translat...tml&edit-text=

[Skybird]

Tomorrow the final death bell for the Merkel plague could ring : there will be elections in the federal state of Hesse. Polls show both CDU and SPD could expect losses of 10%. If the SPD gets ridiculed again, I doubt it will continue the coalition in Berlin. Currently, there is a CDU-Green coalition in Hesse. It is unlikely to continue in this way, a third player would need to join in.


Nation-wide, a clear majority is shown in polls to not want Merkel anymore. 2015 and its consequences has seriously pissed many Germans by now, things have detoriated visibly and security grew worse. Few days ago a group of up to 15 Syrian migrants once again have gang-raped a girl of age 18. Knife-attacks committed by members of the mutli-cultural enrichment movement are now part of German life style and happen practically every day. Police say violence against police officers "have multiplied by factors" both in quality and quantity. Its always the same client group that gives them troubles: migrants from africa and Muslim countries in Africa and the ME.


The two big Volksparteien still try to hide this and to minimise attention for it. They still moralise and want to teach lessons on how to morally behave well. And complain about being kicked off of people's list of preferences in return. I think the age of the great two catch-all parties are over. And all in Europe and even globally we see more extreme kind of politicians coming to power: Italy, Brasil as just the last two examples on my mind.

Curious detail: the people in Hesse also will vote on whether or not to abandon the death penalty. Yes, in Hesse, it still is in the constitution.

[STEED]

GERMANY will be forced to pay an extra £13.2billion a year to the EU after Brexit

I only posted this headline as it comes from the right wing Daily Express gutter press here.

So I will ask is this true or fake news?

[Catfish]

^ May well be, the numbers are from may 2018, but i don't think they changed much. We can take it. Not that we want to.

Much more disturbing: Election in Hesse, Germany. CDU and SPD have suffered losses, the Neonazi AfD has 12 percent and is now present in every county of Germany, with appx. 8+ percent overall. Like in the US, hate speech and anti-semitism is increasing, as is criminal behaviour among the ultra-right. Not good.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

I only posted this headline as it comes from the right wing Daily Express gutter press here.

So I will ask is this true or fake news?

Four or five days ago the main media outlets in Germany and the Tagesschau indeed said that Germany will need to pay an additional 15 billion Euros to the EU per year - additonal to the money it already transfers per year right now.


Add to this the indirect costs due to the changes in trade bilance between Germany and the UK, the losses in taxes due to companies reducing trade with the UK, and so forth.


So the number you read in the Daily Express is not exaggerated. It probably is even too low, if calculating hidden idirect costs as well. The 16 billion mentioned are only due to the schemes by which economic size and populatio size of nations decide the share they have to take for the yearly budgets of the EU. If the UK leaves, that lack needs to be compensated for, and the biggest share will be paid by Germany, as always.


Still , in the ECB decision makings and the eU gremia, Germany has a voting weight of one - like an economic nobody like Malta has "one" as well. Its hilarious. The Germans must have lost their marbles when accepting this bollocks scheme. Its an invitation for abuse. And practically everybody seems to accept it. Serves us right.



But once Germany falls, we will take all of Europe with us. Sounds familiar, eh?

[Skybird]

As projected, both CDU and SPD lost almost 11% in Hesse, accumulating their combined losses to over 21%.


The corrected result, that has the non-voters (="Nichtwähler") calculated into the final scores. Any government being formed will not be legitimated by more than just one third of all population that is eligible to vote. The tyranny of the minorities over the majority.

[mapuc]

@ Skybird

These none-voters (32,4 %)

Have it always been so high ?

If not, why is it so high this time ?

Markus

[STEED]

Thanks Sky.


BTW: You happy about that election result?

[Skybird]

Non-voters in the past 20 years varied between 20 and 30% at national elections, and in the federal states elections of the past 2 decades ranges as high as 56% (Saxonia-Anahlt 2006), though usually being in the medium and high 40s. It depends on the state.

In general, the major parties CDU and SPD since years suffer erosion of their trust and reputation, and since 2-3 years are in a steep fall. Losses they suffer in the last couple of elections always were in the 2-digit range. The big winners these days are the Greens, and the AFD, the latter now present in all 16 federal state parliaments, often by 2-digit scores. The Greens seem to take over the second place dominance from the SPD. The fake-libertarians FDP usually fight for their survival (5% hurdle), and Die Linke (Marxist communist followers to the now gone GDR's SED state party) too want to be much more than they can be, and play practically no big role.

The differences between the parties left and right, socialists and conservative, have become fluent and meaningless and much of the formal socialists' goals and policies have been taken over by Merkel. Since her party occupied the left's ground, the whole system shifted to the left and rendered the left parties meaningless - at the cost of eroding traditionally conservative positions and identity-feeling of the former conservative CDU. The SPD is disliked now since it cannot be differentiated from the "being-left" of the CDU anymore, and the CDU is disliked because it is not especially conservative anymore, but is the new SPD, so to speak. Add to this the massive worstening of security and the migrant disaster and Merkel's underhanded policy in this regard and her incompetent handling and even denial of the crisis, and you have all explanations needed why SPD and CDU get the boot now, and got it two weeks ago in Bavaria as well (the CSU suffered the worst result ever since WW2), and must fear to get it again if there would now be early elections on national level. Its the pure panic that keeps them pushing ahead with the great coalition although nobody, nobody wants it anymore. But they have their faces in the troughs, and they fight stubbornly to give up this privilieged position. Nobody wnatsd the breat coaltion anymore. Not the CDU, not the CSU, not the SPD. And certainly not the German people. Merkel'S reign is practically at its end, and it is like this since last national elecitosn, it is li,e this sicne two years. Shes a zombie, but she just doe snot go, but wants to force everbody to love her again. Mistvieh, verdammtes. Last polls over the past 2 months showed that now a growing majority of Germans want her to simply get lost. Her migrants policy - and her unwillingness to admit that she made a terrible mistake there - has broken her neck. Crime, rapes, and a lot of knife crime is the result. You should know all that from your own country, mapuc - Sweden suffered the same fate over the past years with its uncontrolled Muslim migration influx. Rape and knife-violence exploded. We did the same mistakes like Sweden did earlier - and now the development in germany mirrors the example of developments in Sweden over the past 10, 15 years. Who is the bigger fool here: the original first fool, or the second, follow-up fool needlessly taking the first as his example to follow? All laughs are on Germany, I say.



I wish all them parties to hell, no matter their colours and names.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

Thanks Sky.

BTW: You happy about that election result?

Happy? Its all just a show to me, entertaining or not. You should have noted by now that I am not exactly a deep-state fan at all and have only criticism for the modern concept of so-called democray only. The reasons for this I have often explained over the past couple of years, and I referred to authors and books expressing all this in a more competent fashion than my forum posts usually do. I say it again: for the ancient Greeks, to whom we refer when talking about the "cradle of democracy", the messed up, hopelessly corrupted and completely eroded garbage bin our political systems today are, would appear to be what they rated to by tyranny. Or chaos. The loudest and most incompetent and by character most unscrupulous minorities tyrannise and abuse the majorities. And this we call "freedom"? "Citizenship"? "Responsibility"?

If it all would go up in flames today, I would refuse to voluntarily lend even just a single broken bucket with holes in its bottom. Completely pissed, thats what I am.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...] Completely pissed, thats what I am.

It sure read like it
I do not quite agree to the "democracy" of ancient Greece though, it is easy to have a "democracy" for a few who vote, when all the work is done by slaves who may of course not vote, and are ritually slaughtered and kept down.

Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in what you wrote above your last post.

I found it especially laughable how all parties exclaimed how they had "won" in the Hesse election, while the only party that really got ahead and won was the AfD. Delusional, to say at least. And in Berlin, it is all going on like the last years, nothing to see here, business as usual.