Cold War II: The Donald warns Russia of missile strike in Syria

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

The Biggest US Navy Force Since Iraq Invasion May Be Sailing Toward Syria

Hmmm... does this sound right? Get ready, Russia.





So, does anyone know the balance of naval power in the region? How many US ships vs how many Russian ships?

This is like a Dangerous Waters scenario playing out in real life, I only hope if shooting breaks out, it ends when one force sinks the other force.

The Current Russian fleet presence is limited to a few landing vessels and a fleet oiler along with Udaloy & Sovremenny class destroyers.

What we have not seen yet is the sailing of the Kuznetsov and Kirov class cruisers (yes i got that right before you say she is an aircraft carrier) we also have seen no real activity From the black sea which is the closest fleet to the action.

Black sea fleet has some 45 active warships the largest being Moskva a slava class cruiser and the next being Kerch a smitlevvy class destroyer a vintage 1960's era warship that's been heavily modified and upgraded, in support are 3 new frigates and also some older vessels of the Krivack class.

In support roles for landing troops there are Aligator class and Roupucha (a couple of the latter class are known to be in Syria right now along with a fleet oiler.

Recently the only submarine that was operated in the Black sea was the Alrosa she has since been joined by 6 others of the more improved and new designed Project 636.3 Kilo class, we do know there is likely to be one of these vessels on station at the moment.

It is also likely the a Northern fleet attack submarine likely to be of the Project 971U class (Akula Improved) on station it wouldn't now be uncommon for a Project 949A/M to take up station as well and if Trump is sending a carrier group that way then it is very likely one or two may be dispatched in the coming days but as of yet no sailings have taken place.

Currently the Russians do not disclose submarine activity but from what i gather reading between the lines there are some 8 russian submarines at sea at the moment from the Northern and Black sea fleet's at least 2 of these will be SSBN's the other is likely to be From the baltic and also Northern.

At the moment the assessment i would give is that the NATO alliance has the numbers although keep an eye on the black sea fleet.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Recently the only submarine that was operated in the Black sea was the Alrosa she has since been joined by 6 others of the more improved and new designed Project 636.3 Kilo class, we do know there is likely to be one of these vessels on station at the moment.

It is also likely the a Northern fleet attack submarine likely to be of the Project 971U class (Akula Improved) on station it wouldn't now be uncommon for a Project 949A/M to take up station as well and if Trump is sending a carrier group that way then it is very likely one or two may be dispatched in the coming days but as of yet no sailings have taken place.

Currently the Russians do not disclose submarine activity but from what i gather reading between the lines there are some 8 russian submarines at sea at the moment from the Northern and Black sea fleet's at least 2 of these will be SSBN's the other is likely to be From the baltic and also Northern.

Very good report Kapitan ... the Russians won't pass up an opportunity to follow the Truman battle group into the Med ... they might even be waiting for the USN SSN's that precede this battle group on the other side of Gibraltar

https://pilotonline.com/news/militar...644a76b89.html

The aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman is the lead ship of the strike group, which also includes the guided missile cruiser USS Normandy and the guided missile destroyers of Destroyer Squadron 28: USS Arleigh Burke, USS Bulkeley, USS Forrest Sherman and Mayport, Fla.-based USS Farragut.

[mapuc]

I guess the US have send the Carrier group into the area "in case of"

A wonder about this Black Sea fleet.

If worse case scenario should happen and Russia decide to send some(I don't think they will send the entire Black Sea fleet).

Shall they not pass this strait(forgot it's name)to enter the Mediterranean Sea and isn't this strait is under the Turkish control ?

I have also noticed the war on disinformation have started. It started before but after the attack it exploded.

Markus

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I guess the US have send the Carrier group into the area "in case of"

A wonder about this Black Sea fleet.

If worse case scenario should happen and Russia decide to send some(I don't think they will send the entire Black Sea fleet).

Shall they not pass this strait(forgot it's name)to enter the Mediterranean Sea and isn't this strait is under the Turkish control ?

I have also noticed the war on disinformation have started. It started before but after the attack it exploded.

Markus

The Bosporus is open at the moment to vessels of all flags in accordance to international law under freedom of navigation the Turkish Authorities cannot at the present time close the straight to Russian traffic

In terms of international treaties closing the straight could also be deemed an act of war / aggression should the Turks blockade the area it would trap the Black sea fleet in the Black sea but would also mean Turkish Forces would bear the brunt of the first wave of attacks (if they were to get involved and side with the USA etc etc)

The main bulk of heavy platforms are located in the Northern fleet, so once you see them on the move you know its going to be a big deal, at present i think they will send out a couple more submarines i would likely put money on the Oscar II's and another Akula class probably one of two Kilo's from the black sea, i also think if it got a bit more serious we would see some of the Baltic fleet link with the Northern and come down as a task group we would also sea Moskva come out to play as well.

Right now i think that possibly a Russian SSN is lurking in the STROG awaiting passing vessels and also keeping an Eye on Rota Spain for sailings.

At a guess the US will send in a couple more of submarines thats a for sure thing we will likely see submarines sail from Toloun France and at the moment there wont be any further UK deployment.

What i do know is the current laid up HMS Torbay has had her de fuel pushed back which would give the RN a spare usable SSN if needed, if this continues we could even see HMS Trenchant have her service life extended (due to decommission next year)


Do i think the Russians have something of a couple submarines in and around Spanish waters and STROG ? most certainly

[Rockstar]

I hope our banking institutions internet security is up to date.

[Rockstar]

Thinking about the fleet heading to Syria sort of reminds me of Lincoln's actions at Fort Sumter.

If he abandoned the fort, he jeopardized the Union by legitimizing the Confederacy...

However, if he could induce southerners to attack Sumter, "to assume the aggressive and thus put themselves in the wrong in the eyes of the North and of the world." By sending a relief expedition, ostensibly to provide bread to a hungry garrison, Lincoln turned the tables on the Confederates, forcing them to choose whether to permit the fort to be strengthened, or to act as the aggressor. By this "astute strategy," Lincoln maneuvered the South into firing the first shot."

http://www.tulane.edu/~sumter/Reflections/LinWar.html

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I hope our banking institutions internet security is up to date.

before the strike I was thinking that, but it was so limited to empty research buildings that the Russians can't be that serious about starting a war over it.

Cyber warfare is another matter ... they could pull some dirty tricks there and blame Syria, but that's a long shot.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

The Bosporus is open at the moment to vessels of all flags in accordance to international law under freedom of navigation the Turkish Authorities cannot at the present time close the straight to Russian traffic

In terms of international treaties closing the straight could also be deemed an act of war / aggression should the Turks blockade the area it would trap the Black sea fleet in the Black sea but would also mean Turkish Forces would bear the brunt of the first wave of attacks (if they were to get involved and side with the USA etc etc)

The main bulk of heavy platforms are located in the Northern fleet, so once you see them on the move you know its going to be a big deal, at present i think they will send out a couple more submarines i would likely put money on the Oscar II's and another Akula class probably one of two Kilo's from the black sea, i also think if it got a bit more serious we would see some of the Baltic fleet link with the Northern and come down as a task group we would also sea Moskva come out to play as well.

Right now i think that possibly a Russian SSN is lurking in the STROG awaiting passing vessels and also keeping an Eye on Rota Spain for sailings.

At a guess the US will send in a couple more of submarines thats a for sure thing we will likely see submarines sail from Toloun France and at the moment there wont be any further UK deployment.

What i do know is the current laid up HMS Torbay has had her de fuel pushed back which would give the RN a spare usable SSN if needed, if this continues we could even see HMS Trenchant have her service life extended (due to decommission next year)


Do i think the Russians have something of a couple submarines in and around Spanish waters and STROG ? most certainly

The moment a Russian ship opens fire at a US Navy ship or plane, the Bosporus will be shut down by NATO, international treaties allowing it or not: it does not matter. Whether it will be the Turks or the Americans and Greek and Italians, it does not matter. And I assume not even the Turks will get asked about it. Drop mines with or without their permission. If engaged with the Russian navy, I have serious doubts that the heads of the US navy and air force would trust Turkey any longer. And that mistrust I would expand to many other NATO countries as well: Greece, Germany... Its a theatre company, in my opinion, not so much a wartime union, for parading during peacetime parties and the likes.

[Jimbuna]

Interesting to note that the OPCW inspectors still haven't been given access to Douma.

Must be taking longer for the Russians and Syrians to get rid of any incriminating evidence than they initially believed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43783427

[Skybird]

Russian warship, a frigate it seems, and a transport have been spotted passing the Bosporus.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...ent-operation/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-strikes.html

Wonderful thing, this international law. The bad boys dont care for it, and the other boys allow to get handicapped by it. No wonder that Iran and Russia now have the say in Syria, and all Western goals have vanished. Hope you like the outcome, all you good-doers.

The least thing we could have done was refusing to bend over voluntarily for the spanking. But hey, its the international law, thats holy, thats precious!

Wait until the RTussians have completed their goal to modenrise Syrian and Iranian air defences with latest S300 anbd S400 toyboxes and other good gimmicks. Then the real fun begins when Western air power will see being seriously hindered throughout the ME. Bush started the alienation that created the vacuum the Russian now pour into, and Obama widened the gap by his super-civilised good hope, appeal and wellmeaningness. And Trump just uses this prepared stage to boast with his ego (nd hgis Twitter account). American ME policies always have been a clueless mess, since always - but have they ever been as worse as in the past 15 years?

And the Europeans? - Don't get me started.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Wonderful thing, this international law. The bad boys dont care for it, and the other boys allow to get handicapped by it. No wonder that Iran and Russia now have the say in Syria, and all Western goals have vanished. Hope you like the outcome, all you good-doers.

The least thing we could have done was refusing to bend over voluntarily for the spanking. But hey, its the international law, thats holy, thats precious!


And the Europeans? - Don't get me started.

Isn't it wonderful that we have an international forum that can freely discuss international law leaning towards what we perceive to be right or wrong?

[Kapitan]

International law is put there for a reason and agreed and ratified by member states tossing it out the window could be detrimental when the dust settles.

Further more mining the Bosporus while tactically it makes sense but you are now risking harming neutral countries shipping and civilian lives in one of the busiest bottle necks in the world, secondly your also inside a nations sovereign territory laying offensive weapons without the permission of that government? you have just opened one big huge can of Whoop ass on a world stage.

It is precisely the reason why international laws were made like this to stop things like this happening, even if it is not palatable to the west.

Shall i tell you something else too? NATO article 5 guess what cannot be invoked in Syria Trump blew that one well out the water launching the strike NATO countries have already back off your own country Skybird stated they would not join in the strike now what does that tell you the EU's most powerful economic country says NO !

If you through the law books out of the window what is the whole point of the UN ? may as well disband it because if your undermining the laws that it makes why pay billions into it when it does nothing ?

The west didnt take the lead when this all kicked off Russia did and some how this is Russia's fault? sorry but lets just think for a moment who did the Syrians ask for help cause i dont remember the west getting an invite? further more you say the good boys get the handicap i don't think so the West have been guilty of also bending the same rules so sorry its tit for tat.

[Skybird]

So many reasons to act weak, and self-damaging, exposing one's own vulnerable flanks and allow the opponent/enemy to grow strong.

In case of mining the Bosporus, you release word to the world, and then any merchant thinking he must find out himself is running at his own risk. Its like airlines starting to avoid the Syrian air space hours, days before the missile strike got underway.

Always concerns, and doubts, and hesitations. This is why the West plays no role in syria - and many other crisis hotspots - anymore, and why the bad boys win.

And then we wonder...???

We are strangulating ourselves with our claimed civilizational superiority. And we believe any Russian lie and any doubt spread by russian agitators (not meaning you personally, Kapitain) and social media bots only because it allows us to maintain our illusions a bit longer and thinking that we must not act. Our practical acting is weak. And no moral claim and no international law does change that. Our practical acting is weak. Weakness is never a form of superiority, moral or practical. It does not enoble us. Weak is weak, and nothing else - never.

[Catfish]

Seems there is now some massive cyberattack, against England and the USA.

And i tell myself better now than in ten years, maybe some people now realize in time how vulnerable all this interconnected networking is, from power plants to basic support.


edit: seems we have been led by the nose by our (western) media. UK and US think about a cyber attack, so since the good guys only ever retaliate, there "must have been a russian attack" before, for justification. And we all believe that?
Hard to believe anyone anymore these days.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Seems there is now some massive cyberattack, against England and the USA.

And i tell myself better now than in ten years, maybe some people now realize in time how vulnerable all this interconnected networking is, from power plants to basic support.

Hard to believe anyone anymore these days.

I don't understand this attack ... all I saw was a scroll so far. I'll have to do more research ...

something about hacking servers instead of computers. I'm not that intel smart to understand.