SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > General > Sub & Naval Discussions: World Naval News, Books, & Films
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-17, 12:24 PM   #1
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default Good article about upcomming Zircon AShM

http://vpk-news.ru/articles/29966
You can read it there in Russian.
In short it provides the time line with some facts about the missile itself The time line is as following:

2011 - initial desighn and preparatory work for production.
2012 - subassemblies desighn completed, first flight tests.
2013&2014 - the program continues flight testing.
2015 - first flight tests out of a ground launcher, the contract for the VLS adaptation is announced.
2017 - in March the adapted VLS units are to be transfered to the refit of Kirov class cruiser.
2018 - program is to be completed.

As a reminder - Zircon is a hypersonic (~5M sustained speed class) AShM, desighned for air and VLS launch. It appears that all UKSK patern VLSs are being adapted for Zircon usage. The UKSK patern VLSs can be found on:
- Buyan-M class Small Missile Ship (pr.21631, 8 cells per ship)
- Karakut class Small Missile Ship (pr.22800, 8 cells per ship)
- Gremuyashy class Corvette (pr.20385, 8 cells per ship)
- Grigorovich class Guard Ship (pr.11356, 8 cells per ship)
- Gorshov class Frigade (pr.22350, 16 cells per ship)
- Kirov class refit (pr.11442M, 80 cells per ship)
- Yasen class SSGN (pr.885, 24-32 cells per ship, exact number debated)
- Oscal class SSGN (pr.949AM, 48-72-96 cells per ship, exact numbers debated)
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-17, 06:24 AM   #2
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4185331
TASS source claims that Zircon reached 8M during a test flight and confirms that it could be used out of the UKSK patern VLS.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 06:49 AM   #3
Kapitan
Sub Test Pilot
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK + Canada
Posts: 7,083
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 7


Default

So the they are planning to retrofit the Yasen to carry VLS with this missile much like the 688i and Virginia might be a cheaper option all round and get rid of the more expensive Oscar II in the medium future.

However current plans for yasen extends to just 12 boats to be some what effective i would assume the build plan would be extended to at least 24
__________________
DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond



Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/

Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/

Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:11 AM   #4
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Zircon is being adapted to UKSK patern VLS, this means that current UKSK platforms would be capable of using it with minor modifications.

I have listed those platforms above, in the OP.

Oscar-IIs are probably all going to be refitted to Oscar-III standard. The reason is simple - there are delays in Yasen program and Oscar-III bring new quality through quantity (72 VLS cells is no joke). Current narrative is that after Yasens we would begin construction of a new SSN class - Husky. One of the possible Husky laouts:
 
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:12 AM   #5
Kapitan
Sub Test Pilot
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK + Canada
Posts: 7,083
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 7


Default

Indeed but doesnt answer a question do you think they should increase the build numbers of yasen from 12 to 24 or more?
__________________
DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond



Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/

Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/

Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:14 AM   #6
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapitan View Post
Indeed but doesnt answer a question do you think they should increase the build numbers of yasen from 12 to 24 or more?
We would love more Yasens but it may not be feasable as we desire to maintain a 24 strong force and Yasens are big/expensive. Husky is marketed as the light component of the hi-low mix with Yasen.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:18 AM   #7
Kapitan
Sub Test Pilot
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK + Canada
Posts: 7,083
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 7


Default

I understand the cost implications but having just 6 per fleet would be some what of a thin line.

I am assuming of course the yasen will likely replace the older Victor Sierra and Akula's which numbers run a lot more than 12 from knowledge a total of 16 971's were built along with 4 645's

And with a carrier programme looking to come along in the medium future a CVBG would require a few more nuclear submarine assets
__________________
DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond



Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/

Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/

Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:29 AM   #8
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Ok, let me clarify some bits. Currently Russian Navy has, in terms of nuclear powered non strategic, non special purpose submarines:
- 1 Yasen class (1 operational).
- 8 Oscar series (5 operational, 3 in mid life repair&refit).
- 10 Akula series (3 operational, 2 in short term repairs/maintenance, 5 in mid life repair&refit or awaiting it)
- 4 Sierra series (2 operational, 2 awaiting mid life repair&refit).
- 3 Victor-IV class (1 operational 2 in short term repair/maintenance).

As you can see the total force is 10+8+4+3+1=26 submarines.

The current idea appears to maintain the ~24 strong force and have high/low mix with ~8 SSGNs (Yasens) and ~16 SSNs (Husky class). Husky class would go online after Akulas and Sierras series that went through refit would get close to their usefull lives. The influx of Yasens would compensate for decomissioning Victor-IVs and non refitted Akula/Sierra seires. Loss of the Oscar-III silo capacity would be to some extend compensated by having it on Husky class.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:34 AM   #9
Kapitan
Sub Test Pilot
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK + Canada
Posts: 7,083
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 7


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikalugin View Post
Ok, let me clarify some bits. Currently Russian Navy has, in terms of nuclear powered non strategic, non special purpose submarines:
- 1 Yasen class (1 operational).
- 8 Oscar series (5 operational, 3 in mid life repair&refit).
- 10 Akula series (3 operational, 2 in short term repairs/maintenance, 5 in mid life repair&refit or awaiting it)
- 4 Sierra series (2 operational, 2 awaiting mid life repair&refit).
- 3 Victor-IV class (1 operational 2 in short term repair/maintenance).

As you can see the total force is 10+8+4+3+1=26 submarines.

The current idea appears to maintain the ~24 strong force and have high/low mix with ~8 SSGNs (Yasens) and ~16 SSNs (Husky class). Husky class would go online after Akulas and Sierras series that went through refit would get close to their usefull lives. The influx of Yasens would compensate for decomissioning Victor-IVs and non refitted Akula/Sierra seires. Loss of the Oscar-III silo capacity would be to some extend compensated by having it on Husky class.

Numbers match what i have here, so the intention would be to build multiple classes rather than one class does all like the UK and USA does which is what the Russian's have always done.

But yes this does clarify some things too didnt expect the Akulas to live on so long nor the Victor's
__________________
DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond



Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/

Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/

Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:44 AM   #10
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Victor-IVs are actually fairly fresh (layed down 1988-1991, completed 1990-1992), as they were constructed in paralel to the true 3rd gen SSNs (ie Akulas).

But I dont think that Victor-IVs would get refits and thus would be dumped with the 3rd gen SSNs that do not get it.

Then we have 12-14 SSBNs, special purpose subs, SSKs and so on.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 07:53 AM   #11
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

The possible Husky class layout I have linked above has 3*4 missile silos. Compare and contrast with 8*4 silos on Yasen and 24*3 on Oscar-IIIs.

 


http://www.hisutton.com/Husky_SSN.html
pretty interesting resource in english but with the midget sub focus.
__________________
Grumpy as always.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 08:04 AM   #12
Kapitan
Sub Test Pilot
 
Kapitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK + Canada
Posts: 7,083
Downloads: 65
Uploads: 7


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikalugin View Post
Victor-IVs are actually fairly fresh (layed down 1988-1991, completed 1990-1992), as they were constructed in paralel to the true 3rd gen SSNs (ie Akulas).

But I dont think that Victor-IVs would get refits and thus would be dumped with the 3rd gen SSNs that do not get it.

Then we have 12-14 SSBNs, special purpose subs, SSKs and so on.

1980's fresh ? blimey ours are expected (Trafalgar class) between now and 2022 so probably along the same time frame then.

Interesting read too seems almost a throw back to the lira design of project 705
__________________
DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond



Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/

Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/

Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/
Kapitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-17, 08:13 AM   #13
ikalugin
Ocean Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 3,212
Downloads: 8
Uploads: 0


Default

Sure, for example currently operational Akula series:
- K-317 Panther (1986-1990)
- K-335 Gepard (1991-2001)
- K-419 Kuzbas (1991-1992)
are fairly compatable in age in terms of layed down date to the Victor-IVs.

Currently operational Delta-IIIs are significantly older:
- K-44 Ryazan (1980-1982)
- K-223 Podolsk (1977-1979)
- K-433 Georgi Pobedonosec (1978-1980)
and they go on patrols, get new weapons, etc.

Delta-IIIs would probably get replaced by the next batch of Boreis.
__________________
Grumpy as always.

Last edited by ikalugin; 04-17-17 at 08:21 AM.
ikalugin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.