Why did germany use "prize regulations"?

[UKönig]

That's the one.
You'd probably pay more with shipping than the total cost of the book, but it's a nice little addition to anyone's uboat book collection.

But about the author....

[Draka]

On Historisches MarineArchiv's site - http://historisches-marinearchiv.de/...2/ergebnis.php - I found this entry:

Busch, Harald Correspondent 05.08.1904 Godesberg U 101. (1941). U 1107. wrote book U boot auf Feindfahrt

so apparently he was a correspondent, not an actual Kriegsmarine officer of any kind.

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by UKönig

And several times throughout, he tries to put the Germans off in a slightly better light. For example, he cites that the war started on Sept, 3, 1939 with Britain declaring war first. When the rest of the world knows it started on Sept, 1, 1939 with the illegal invasion of Poland. Thus, the author does not think the attack against Poland was unwarranted, but the continued aggression of the British and Americans was. It makes for an interesting read because of its slightly slanted viewpoint.

I think the general feeling in Germany at the time was that they did not start the war but that it was forced on them.

Donitz
"Rescue no one and take no one with you. Have no care for the ship's boats. Weather conditions and the proximity of land are of no account. Care only for your own boat and strive to achieve the next success as soon as possible! We must be hard in this war. The enemy started the war in order to destroy us, therefore nothing else matters"

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by Draka

On Historisches MarineArchiv's site - http://historisches-marinea<br /> <b...2/ergebnis.php - I found this entry:

Busch, Harald Correspondent 05.08.1904 Godesberg U 101. (1941). U 1107. wrote book U boot auf Feindfahrt

so apparently he was a correspondent, not an actual Kriegsmarine officer of any kind.

Just like Buchheim.

[avers]

[QUOTE=BigWalleye;2245309]Clay Blair: Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunted: 1942-1945, Prologue and Chapter One, tells the complete story of what the QUOTE]
Did u mean volume 1: Hitler's U-boat war: The Hunters:1939-1942?

[BigWalleye]

[QUOTE=avers;2246846]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

Clay Blair: Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunted: 1942-1945, Prologue and Chapter One, tells the complete story of what the QUOTE]
Did u mean volume 1: Hitler's U-boat war: The Hunters:1939-1942?

Yep! Cut and pssted the wrong one. Mea culpa.

[avers]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

Clay Blair: Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunted: 1942-1945, Prologue and Chapter One, tells the complete story of what the Prize Regulations were, where they came from, how the KM struggled to live within them, and eventually abandoned them. It would be difficult to do the story justice in a SubSim post.

Thanx, I got the book, but I can't seem to find the page that says when Germany stopped using prize regulations. if u could please tell me the chapter where it says that? thank u in advanced for your help.

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by avers

Thanx, I got the book, but I can't seem to find the page that says when Germany stopped using prize regulations. if u could please tell me the chapter where it says that? thank u in advanced for your help.

That's just the point. There isn't a page, because it was all done incrementally. Prize regulations were relaxed in certain areas only, then in further areas, and for certain natiional flag ships, and so on. The first two chapters cover most of the transition. But there was never a single order that read: "Stop following the Prize Regulations under all circumstances." As late as June, 1940, US flag vessels were to be left alone except under certain circumstances, as (of course) were French and Spanish vessels. The abandonment of the Prize Regulations, as I have said several times in this thread, was a long, complex process, with various steps back being taken for various reasons.

In the JFO! mod, there is a file named target attack restrictions.txt, which contains summaries of all the subject orders issued by BdU. These are not the authentic translated text of the orders, but they are a fairly careful paraphrasing. You might find that file easier to absorb than the detailed account threaded through several chapters of Blair. But, while the file gives an idea of what and when, it does not tell the story of why.

[avers]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

"Rescue no one and take no one with you. Have no care for the ship's boats. Weather conditions and the proximity of land are of no account. Care only for your own boat and strive to achieve the next success as soon as possible! We must be hard in this war. The enemy started the war in order to destroy us, therefore nothing else matters" "

I think this message was sent in 1942 when a u boat (I forgot which one) sank an American ship down by Africa and the ship was carrying German and Italian POWs. After the ship sank, the u boat started towing the life boats to safety. When morning came 2 B-24 liberators flew out and spotted the u boat with the Red Cross flying, the liberators got permission to attack and nearly sank the boat. I think after this incident, Donitz sent that message.

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by avers

I think this message was sent in 1942 when a u boat (I forgot which one) sank an American ship down by Africa and the ship was carrying German and Italian POWs. After the ship sank, the u boat started towing the life boats to safety. When morning came 2 B-24 liberators flew out and spotted the u boat with the Red Cross flying, the liberators got permission to attack and nearly sank the boat. I think after this incident, Donitz sent that message.

I have read accounts of incidents such as you describe, going back to the early days of the war. Early on, they were apparently not that uncommon. At his Nuremburg trial , Dönitz cited the frequency of such incidents as the reason behind the order Von Tonner quotes.

But an incident in 1942 could not have been the basis for the order. Blair in Chapter 2 (and endnotes) states that a copy of that order was found in U-13, which was captured by the British in May, 1940.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by avers

I think this message was sent in 1942 when a u boat (I forgot which one) sank an American ship down by Africa and the ship was carrying German and Italian POWs. After the ship sank, the u boat started towing the life boats to safety. When morning came 2 B-24 liberators flew out and spotted the u boat with the Red Cross flying, the liberators got permission to attack and nearly sank the boat. I think after this incident, Donitz sent that message.

Laconia incident

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Laconia incident

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident

Hmmm. The Wikipedia article pretty clearly attributes the “Give no assistance” policy directly to the Laconia Incident. And it goes into some detail about how Doenitz embarassed the Allied prosecutors by pointing out that the policy was a response to bad behavior on the Allied side.

But Blair is also pretty clear in stating that the order, which he quotes verbatim from the Nuremburg record, came into Allied possession through the capture of U-13 in May 1940, two years before the Laconia Incident. Blair cites as Doenitz’s Nuremburg defense a claim that the order was a response to U-boat commanders’ excessive willingness to risk their boats to assist survivors.

I don’t see how these two sources can both be correct. Does anyone have additional information?

[avers]

In clay Blair's 1st u boat book, does it say what was the last restriction to be removed? If so please tell me what page or chapter.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by BigWalleye

I don’t see how these two sources can both be correct. Does anyone have additional information?

Further down the Wiki article also makes reference to War Order No. 154, from December 1939, and links to this article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Order_No._154

That was likely the one recovered from U-13, and the Laconia order was probably an extension and reiteration of Order 154.

[avers]

let me change my question. What was the last restriction removed? If you guys can please tell me when the final restriction was removed.