Silent Hunter 5 Announced?

[Task Force]

Originally Posted by badaboom

@RR I concur with the majority of your statement,the only flaw in the pc market I see is[dare I say it] Piracy I don't believe it is as common in the console market.

You never know, They realy have no way of knowing unless your system is hooked up to the internet. Stupid Pirates, they take the fun out of PC gameing cause they discuroge companys from makeing them.

[kylania]

Originally Posted by badaboom

@RR,Interesting concept,upfront money with monthly commitment =long term product support and development from co. and publisher.Hmmm interesting.

This sort of thing was discussed at the Ubisoft forums a while back. It failed horribly. Essentially you'd end up paying $100+ for an unfinished game by the time it was "released".

Players are already vicious enough and demanding enough with the normal game development process, if they were enabled with their monthly payment to demand something it would be even worse. Also you simply cannot guarentee that "progress" will be made, especially not in a "worth paying for" amount each month. Just look at how people treat the free mod volunteer authors!

Subscription games like MMORPGs work with a pay to play since even though they are constantly updated and expanded, you can at least play the whole time.

I'd rather wait for a reasonably priced game to be finished and delivered complete rather than pay monthly for ... nothing?

[Task Force]

I agree, paying for monthly updates would be kind of like paying anouther bill. I dont think the average person has enough capital (cause we all dont use US dollars for money) to keep there house much less eletricity running and pay this too.

[IronPerch]

Hmm... I think that the SH5 stays in WWII era (and the U-boats...)... Books, movies, history as a hobby etc. If the release schedule is at Q1/2009 Ubi is basicly porting and polishing their models to DX10 environment etc, BUT i think that "new thing" could be totally new online-gaming mode:


- The carreer development could be depending e.g. the online-time and total tonnage -> servers running statistics about tonnage, medals etc. Play enough and you'll get "unlocks" for better subs, veapons, crew ... yes, the BF2 type of system. We have it also in this forum (Hey, this is my 30. post...wonder how many more before i get "promoted" :p).
- No need for AI if the seas are full of human controlled ships (the time compression problem is solved by spawning, and the AI takes the vessel if you finally have to sleep). Imagine that feelig after torpedoing the "top score" skipper
- Wolf Packs enabled! Maybe not by voip (i hope not), but by radio messages (delayed chat) send by the other players.... "Convoy at AN4279, happy hunting! -Ironperch-"
- and probably it's not just sub's (targets needed) but more like naval WWII simulation. I quess Silent Hunter is kind of brand for this kind of simulation so why change the name.

How about that? Anyone from UBI here?

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by kylania

This sort of thing was discussed at the Ubisoft forums a while back. It failed horribly. Essentially you'd end up paying $100+ for an unfinished game by the time it was "released".

Subscription games like MMORPGs work with a pay to play since even though they are constantly updated and expanded, you can at least play the whole time.

I'd rather wait for a reasonably priced game to be finished and delivered complete rather than pay monthly for ... nothing?

This and the piracy issue are why my concept works while the KFM plan over at Ubi Forums was a joke worthy of your scorn. It was a Krazy plan, based on very expensive wishful thinking. I occasionally attempted to bring reason into the discussion, but KFM wasn't interested in suggestions. I politely told him I would not be participating in a glorified prerelease payment scheme that did nothing to adapt to the unique PC marketplace.

First of all, my plan gives you a game you can play, with updates on a pre-announced schedule. You're not paying for game development, you're paying for maintenance and improvement of an already working product! Now we are paying game companies to produce the next game as the only way they can continue to produce profits. Profit is not the evil spawn of Satan, but the lifeblood of society. Without it most of us die pretty quickly and not prettily either.

My way also eliminates piracy as the game calls home, and perhaps even has online components, without which the game cannot be played. Go ahead and pirate the game! If you are not an active legitimately registered user with a valid subscription, all you have is a coaster.

Come on guys! Surely you can shoot holes in the theory better than that. To recap: A low entrance price, $30.00, for a working game, an affordable subscription price, $7.50 per month, with a minimum ten year committment by the gaming company with subscriptions used to pay a stable dev team who would evolve the product with three or six month scheduled upgrades throughout (ala Ubuntu). Online cooperative and competitive play as part of the package. Piracy not a factor. Game playable throughout: nobody prepays for vaporware.

People always end up doing what they are paid for. Now we pay game companies to abandon games and publish another because that is the only way they can continue to make money. If we want them to maintain an existing procuct we are going to have to pay them to do that.

Then and only then will we get the game we need and they get the profits they need.

Load up and commence firing, guys!

[doulos05]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

First of all, my plan gives you a game you can play, with updates on a pre-announced schedule. You're not paying for game development, you're paying for maintenance and improvement of an already working product! Now we are paying game companies to produce the next game as the only way they can continue to produce profits. Profit is not the evil spawn of Satan, but the lifeblood of society. Without it most of us die pretty quickly and not prettily either.

My way also eliminates piracy as the game calls home, and perhaps even has online components, without which the game cannot be played. Go ahead and pirate the game! If you are not an active legitimately registered user with a valid subscription, all you have is a coaster.

Come on guys! Surely you can shoot holes in the theory better than that. To recap: A low entrance price, $30.00, for a working game, an affordable subscription price, $7.50 per month, with a minimum ten year committment by the gaming company with subscriptions used to pay a stable dev team who would evolve the product with three or six month scheduled upgrades throughout (ala Ubuntu). Online cooperative and competitive play as part of the package. Piracy not a factor. Game playable throughout: nobody prepays for vaporware.

I would buy something like this with 2 basic stipulations (which carry over from the Ubuntu model). 1) if I don't want to pay a monthly fee, but just play the base game as it is, let me do that. Sure, the version I bought in the store isn't the latest, greatest version; but I bought it and I don't have the money or the desire right now to pay monthly. 2) if I can't pay for 5 or 6 months, when I start paying again let me jump right in as though I never stopped paying. If SHIV did that, I'd have bought it even sooner. And, although I probably wouldn't be able to pay every month, you'd better believe every month I could scrap the money together, Ubi would get it.

This is probably done easiest by making online play and updates (as well as maybe advanced tools, mods, or something else) the paid portion and basic solo play unpaid (provided you had an account). Then, like you said. Let them pirate it, if they don't have an account, they can't play. Also, that means let people install it on as many computers as they want, each account can only play one at a time (possibly allow group accounts to let gamer groups buy 5 seats at a discount or something, not sure if there'd be a market for that). Offline authentication becomes a problem (I don't want my game shut off just because of some fiber-seeking backhoe outside of Atlanta), but it's fixable.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by doulos05

I would buy something like this with 2 basic stipulations (which carry over from the Ubuntu model). 1) if I don't want to pay a monthly fee, but just play the base game as it is, let me do that. Sure, the version I bought in the store isn't the latest, greatest version; but I bought it and I don't have the money or the desire right now to pay monthly. 2) if I can't pay for 5 or 6 months, when I start paying again let me jump right in as though I never stopped paying. If SHIV did that, I'd have bought it even sooner. And, although I probably wouldn't be able to pay every month, you'd better believe every month I could scrap the money together, Ubi would get it.

This is probably done easiest by making online play and updates (as well as maybe advanced tools, mods, or something else) the paid portion and basic solo play unpaid (provided you had an account). Then, like you said. Let them pirate it, if they don't have an account, they can't play. Also, that means let people install it on as many computers as they want, each account can only play one at a time (possibly allow group accounts to let gamer groups buy 5 seats at a discount or something, not sure if there'd be a market for that). Offline authentication becomes a problem (I don't want my game shut off just because of some fiber-seeking backhoe outside of Atlanta), but it's fixable.

Some neat ideas there. I think the free game should be very basic: just enough to tell you if the game will run on your machine and to make you want to subscribe. I like the resumption of payment with no penalty idea. That's why the free game has to be very basic. Otherwise people would make a payment every year to just catch up and be good to go. Can't have that because the object is to give the game company a dependable, uncheatable income stream. That way they can afford a stable dev team at a monthly cost you can afford.

I think that there should be a contract term that if the game company terminates at the end of the contract that they leave every current subscriber with a functioning game to play afterward. If the concept worked well that would never happen because the game company would have a cash cow on their hands and we would have a very affordable game of unimaginable quality.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Anyone think it is a fake link to steer up the pot?

[difool2]

Originally Posted by IronPerch

- No need for AI if the seas are full of human controlled ships (the time compression problem is solved by spawning, and the AI takes the vessel if you finally have to sleep). Imagine that feelig after torpedoing the "top score" skipper
- Wolf Packs enabled! Maybe not by voip (i hope not), but by radio messages (delayed chat) send by the other players.... "Convoy at AN4279, happy hunting! -Ironperch-"
- and probably it's not just sub's (targets needed) but more like naval WWII simulation. I quess Silent Hunter is kind of brand for this kind of simulation so why change the name.

How about that? Anyone from UBI here?

Believe me, I've tried thinking within the box, outside the box, & putting the box on my head and dancing the can-can, all in an attempt to figure out how to make a MMO subsim viable. I eventually gave up in frustration (right before I completely lost my mind for good in the effort). The problem is the tension between the solo player style and the online playing style. Either (to make a long story short) you have a huge (reasonably sized realistic map) playing area where there is hardly any action and you are spending hours of real time (at 1x time compression) sailing around trying to locate a fight, or you are all tossed into a small arena where there's certainly no lack of a fight, but the entire historical U-boat/subhunter dynamic is completely thrown out the window. And there's Navyfield if the latter kind of thing is your bag (me, I must have a strategic context or it is simply a bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing).

Alternatives to the above (limited time compression, AI placeholder units and/or AI commanders who take over for you when you are AFK, spawned instances/battles based on a strategic map) all have problems, introduce clunkiness, and/or provide for possible exploits. I would dearly love to see a MMO sub sim, but frankly I don't know how to do it without bowdlerizing the entire solo experience in the translation. It would basically be like taking a solo golf game, and making it a MMO cricket game; the kind of gameplay we have enjoyed with SH3/4 would simply not be recognizable. And for many here, that won't sell.

Now, if someone can come up with a scheme which can convince me otherwise, I am all ears-do your worst. Please.

[Adriatico]

Do you people really think that Ubi would release a new sim in Jan09... without any announcement, screenshot, teaser... etc.

[Rockin Robbins]

I sure hope not. I cannot think of a scenario that doesn't involve defeat, gnashing of teeth, desperate losses of money, derisive laughter and humiliation where Ubi is concerned if it is true.

[Task Force]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

Do you people really think that Ubi would release a new sim in Jan09... without any announcement, screenshot, teaser... etc.

If so, I think it will be around december.

[Adriatico]

Yea, they woudn't miss out Christmas shopping spree...

[DS]

Hey, I love these guys in Romania and the great product they put out ( ), but honestly, a brand new SHV 3 months from now?

Not a *#^*%##% chance in h*ll.

As to whether to repeat the Atlantic or Pacific thing, I'm torn. I think I'm not in favour of a modern nuke sim, but I am warm to a 1945-1960 era SSK cold war sim. That period saw plenty of interesting action, when (I believe) operational planners were a bit less risk adverse than they are today. WWI doesn't really float my boat, but I leave room to be pleasantly surprised on that front.

No matter when it is set, it is more important to be done right than to be done quickly (or through flawed process). SH2 was a testament to that.

I'd be happy to stick to SH3 and SH4 until 2012 if it meant that in 2012 I got an SH5 that really blew my socks off.

[Adriatico]

I would not wait for two days for any project "after 1945"...

Self guided torps, computer confirmed hit,... what is the challenge and gameplay ?

It would be crime against SH tradition and brand...

Kriegsmarine in new engine, it would be "classic" for another 10-15 years