F-35 makes first public flight

[Onkel Neal]

Not bad, maybe this will answer some of the critics.
https://www.wired.com/video/2017/06/...public-flight/

[Skybird]

Some days ago there was an article on it in a German newspaper, saying that the costs have been cut by two thirds due to the huge ordering volume, and that the manufacturer aggressively seeks new customers. This and the fact that the Europeans will not get their acts together, instead for preparing the next fighter of theirs already start splitting again and running into individual special wishes and desires, now causes even the Luftwaffe to eyeing this aircraft. At least many German Luftwaffe officers are a bit envious. However, buying this from the US instead of producing another international cooperation plaything, would be a monument for that Europe has said good-bye to this branch of hightech heavy industry. So I expect Germany, France, maybe Italy once again will do their own thing. With forseeable results: small ordering volumes, many technical problems, a decade of delays, and exploding costs. Like the A400M transport, which is a humming nightmare in my book. The German army build its new infantry fighting vehcile PUMA (once again the most expensive one of its kind in the world) to the specifications enabling it for air transport via the Airbus. And there we are now... Since years. Many years. Still airtaxi for Pumas. The combo already since many years should have been deployed by now.

We lease Russian and Ukrainian Antonovs to shuffle our peacemakers to and from Afghanistan. We need others for airlifting them inside Afghanistan. What a madness to have troops in the field - and needing neutral third parties for logistics and mobility. Thats insane. One should deploy only as far as one can support it by one's own capability.

The Eurofighter/Typhoon is plagued by teething problems until today. After all these years it still is not unconditionally combat-ready. And some insiders say it never will be, and needs to be replaced.

The Swedes with their Viggen, draken and Gripen, did it so much more clever than the Eurofighter consortium. Every time they released their latest baby, it was state of the art. And came with a much better bang-for-the buck ratio.

Some European nations already have ordered the F-35, and with its price now dropping below that of the Typhoon LOL, the Luftwaffe maybe should do that too. But "independence" by a European military cannot be had this way - and then it makes no sense to talk of building an "independent" EU-army beside NATO. Which only supports my view that we should forget this EU-army prestige project, and instead use those needed fundings to stronger support our stand in NATO. Why having parallel structures that cost much more?

[Skybird]

^ That does not mean that I became a total fan of the F-35 by now. Especially the range, that could only be increased by compromising its highly paid stealth feature via external tanks, and the small payload (for same reason), would irk me if I had to pay for this thing.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Swedes with their Viggen, draken and Gripen, did it so much more clever than the Eurofighter consortium. Every time they released their latest baby, it was state of the art. And came with a much better bang-for-the buck ratio.

That's not entirely true. Although Sweden has an excellent aerospace and technology industry and has developed and produced a number of excellent combat aircraft, Sweden's latest fighter aircraft, the Saab Grippen, had a number of teething troubles including software issues, flight control systems and a number of delays.

Quote:
Testing, production, and improvements


Saab rolled out the first Gripen on 26 April 1987, marking its 50th anniversary. Originally planned to fly in 1987, the first flight was delayed by 18 months due to issues with the flight control system. On 9 December 1988, the first prototype (serial number 39-1) took its 51-minute maiden flight with pilot Stig Holmström at the controls. During the test programme, concern surfaced about the aircraft's avionics, specifically the fly-by-wire flight control system (FCS), and the relaxed stability design. On 2 February 1989, this issue led to the crash of the prototype during an attempted landing at Linköping; the test pilot Lars Rådeström walked away with a broken elbow. The cause of the crash was identified as pilot-induced oscillation, caused by problems with the FCS's pitch-control routine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen







External video


The Saab Viggen ( Thunderbolt ) was dubbed " Thor's Hammer " and was by all accounts a capable, formidable and innovative aircraft featuring a double delta wing configuration.

http://www.military-today.com/aircra..._37_viggen.htm

[Mr Quatro]

Just think the F-35 only took 20 years to get this far

https://www.f35.com/about/history

In 1997, Lockheed Martin was selected as one of two companies to participate in the Joint Strike Fighter concept demonstration phase. In October 2001, the Lockheed Martin X-35 was chosen as the winner of the competition and teamed with Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems to begin production.

The first production F-35A rolled out of the assembly in Fort Worth, Texas, in February of 2006. Later that year, the stealthy F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, in development by the United States and eight other countries, was named the "Lightning II," in homage to two earlier fighters.

In December of 2006, the F-35 completed its first flight. Over the next few years, flight and ground test articles of all three variants rolled off the production line and began collecting test points. The first production F-35 conducted its first flight in February of 2011 with deliveries of the aircraft beginning that very same year.

In 2012, the F-35 ramped up with 30 aircraft deliveries and increased testing operations across the United States. The program reached several milestones in weapons separation testing, angle of attack testing, aerial refueling training, and surpassed more than 5,000 flight hours with more than 2,100 recorded flights in that year.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

That's not entirely true. Although Sweden has an excellent aerospace and technology industry and has developed and produced a number of excellent combat aircraft, Sweden's latest fighter aircraft, the Saab Grippen, had a number of teething troubles including software issues, flight control systems and a number of delays.




The Saab Viggen ( Thunderbolt ) was dubbed " Thor's Hammer " and was by all accounts a capable, formidable and innovative aircraft featuring a double delta wing configuration.

http://www.military-today.com/aircra..._37_viggen.htm

Show any modern jetb without such teething problems. But the po9jn t of mine is that the Swedes got their homework done and after a reasonable time had solved the issues. The Eurofighter and the A400M by now already are two Neverending Stories.

Also, in the late 80s, the Gripen once again was described by quite some Western pilots as the most innovative design of its time. Its cockpit ergonomy was one step ahead even of the later F-16C. And all three Swedish planes - Draaken, Viggen, Gripen - each set some firsts in fighter design.

Sweden also pioneers some of the most sophisticated navy stealth designs. Their submarines are top class, and their IFV - the CV-series of vehicles: 30, 35, 40 - again belongs to the best you can get. Only for their tanks they need the Germans - their Strv-122 is a modified Leo-2A5.

Strv: "Stridsvagn" - Streitwagen - quite old-fashioned a way to say "tank". LOL

[Commander Wallace]

I agree Skybird that Sweden did their homework on their respective aircraft. However, with regards to teething issues, The American F-15 and F-16 didn't have much in the way of problems as the concept, engineering and production were well thought out. Both aircraft are still highly regarded. Likewise, I didn't hear of any Issues with the Strike / Interceptor aircraft, Panavia Tornado's developed by Italy, United Kingdom and West Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado


Likewise, the Eurofighter Typhoon didn't have a lot in the way of Issues to overcome. BAE Systems was heavily involved in the project as well. Both Aircraft were the result of collaborations with some of Europe's best aircraft designers and minds.

[Jimbuna]

As far as I'm aware the RAF are most content with the Eurofighter and I certainly don't feel the need to point out the sterling service the Tornado has and continues to give.

Regarding the F-35: The RAF has taken delivery of nine aircraft to date (known as Lightning II in UK service) and in the early part 2018, 617Squadron will reform and will be the first RAF Squadron to be equipped with Lightning aircraft . The Squadron will return to the UK towards the end of the summer and will be based at RAF Marham in Norfolk. The Operational Conversion Unit will remain in the USA until 2019 when it will then return to the UK and join 617 Squadron at RAF Marham.

[ikalugin]

The German army build its new infantry fighting vehcile PUMA

Remember, the ability to drive in a straight line was not in the requirements!

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Just think the F-35 only took 20 years to get this far

https://www.f35.com/about/history

...or for some perspective enough time to win WW2 four times over.



With so many different nations buying it, the good news is that if the F-35 is a piece of crap, the fact isn't going to be able to be hidden by just one service lying about it like the early Ospreys.

[Fubar2Niner]

Something strange here....


RIAT 2016

[Schroeder]

^That proofs that the F35 is actually a time machine.
That also explains the costs.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I agree Skybird that Sweden did their homework on their respective aircraft. However, with regards to teething issues, The American F-15 and F-16 didn't have much in the way of problems as the concept, engineering and production were well thought out. Both aircraft are still highly regarded. Likewise, I didn't hear of any Issues with the Strike / Interceptor aircraft, Panavia Tornado's developed by Italy, United Kingdom and West Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado


Likewise, the Eurofighter Typhoon didn't have a lot in the way of Issues to overcome. BAE Systems was heavily involved in the project as well. Both Aircraft were the result of collaborations with some of Europe's best aircraft designers and minds.

I have not looked it up again and so tell this by memory only, but the F-16 had quite some problems with its fly-by-wire - it was the first with that. The Tornado also had problems and I think also crashes in the starting era. Flying low at its speeds was a rough ride that caused problems for the technology, initially.

Its a long time that I read about it, and two or three books on the history of modenr fighter jets. Don't ask me for details anymore, I have forgotten quite some.

I loved those books and their large illustrative photographies, but only one survived the flood we had three years ago...

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

^That proofs that the F35 is actually a time machine.
That also explains the costs.

Nonsense. You could take the plans and go back in time, fire all the designers, and spare the money