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Old 10-05-15, 08:46 AM   #4366
Laffertytig
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im caught in two minds with what convoy layer mod to go with.

can anyone who has tried the campaign/mission layers for TMO, RSRD and guerrilla mod point out the differences?

the biggest drawback with RSRD is that it alters the TMO AI right, in what way exactly?

and how would i go about installing either the rsrd or guerilla mod without altering the AI stuff from TMO?
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Old 10-05-15, 12:40 PM   #4367
aanker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laffertytig View Post
im caught in two minds with what convoy layer mod to go with.

can anyone who has tried the campaign/mission layers for TMO, RSRD and guerrilla mod point out the differences?

the biggest drawback with RSRD is that it alters the TMO AI right, in what way exactly?

and how would i go about installing either the rsrd or guerilla mod without altering the AI stuff from TMO?
In our Pacific Thunder Campaign group members installed a very similar mod to the Guerrilla Spyron mod; a 'parent' mod that was converted into the Guerrilla Spyron mod. It was heavily researched.

Although the 'parent' mod was made for Stock, members installed it over Stock, GFO, TMO, & RFB (some with minor changes). It is not compatible with RSRD.

"Spyron" changes:
CareerStart.upc, CareerTrack.upc, Flotillas.upc, & PatrolObjectives.upc.
Also:
UPCLocalization.tsr

Anything affected by those files would be changed.

Other than those files, it does not change anything else except the campaign layers - the Objectives. The campaign mission files add some 'traffic' in Stock's empty 'shipping areas' & adds Patrol craft in and near enemy ports, adds forward bases, mines etc, and changes all Special Missions to those actually conducted in WW II. It uses the shipping - 'traffic' it is installed over.

Some modification to the upc files listed above would be needed to have any submarine other than the S-class, PORPOISE, SALMON/SARGO, TAMBOR, GAR, GATO, & BALAO class boats.

RSRD is a mega mod now. It began as an attempt to recreate the actual shipping traffic and Task force movements reported by the Japanese and postwar analysis of their movements during WW II. Now, many things have been changed that have nothing to do with its original intent. That said, it is a fine mod.

I have a heavily tweaked install of Stock similar to that described by fitzcarraldo.

Hope this helps. You'll just have to play SH4 and experiment with various mods to find an install combination that you like.

If you use Multi-SH4 you can even have a Stock, GFO, TMO, RFB, 'Spyron', and RSRD installs at the same time. They are only 5 GB each, and Hard Drives are enormous nowadays.

Happy Hunting!
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Last edited by aanker; 10-05-15 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 10-06-15, 10:01 AM   #4368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aanker View Post
In our Pacific Thunder Campaign group members installed a very similar mod to the Guerrilla Spyron mod; a 'parent' mod that was converted into the Guerrilla Spyron mod. It was heavily researched.

Although the 'parent' mod was made for Stock, members installed it over Stock, GFO, TMO, & RFB (some with minor changes). It is not compatible with RSRD.

"Spyron" changes:
CareerStart.upc, CareerTrack.upc, Flotillas.upc, & PatrolObjectives.upc.
Also:
UPCLocalization.tsr

Anything affected by those files would be changed.

Other than those files, it does not change anything else except the campaign layers - the Objectives. The campaign mission files add some 'traffic' in Stock's empty 'shipping areas' & adds Patrol craft in and near enemy ports, adds forward bases, mines etc, and changes all Special Missions to those actually conducted in WW II. It uses the shipping - 'traffic' it is installed over.

Some modification to the upc files listed above would be needed to have any submarine other than the S-class, PORPOISE, SALMON/SARGO, TAMBOR, GAR, GATO, & BALAO class boats.

RSRD is a mega mod now. It began as an attempt to recreate the actual shipping traffic and Task force movements reported by the Japanese and postwar analysis of their movements during WW II. Now, many things have been changed that have nothing to do with its original intent. That said, it is a fine mod.

I have a heavily tweaked install of Stock similar to that described by fitzcarraldo.

Hope this helps. You'll just have to play SH4 and experiment with various mods to find an install combination that you like.

If you use Multi-SH4 you can even have a Stock, GFO, TMO, RFB, 'Spyron', and RSRD installs at the same time. They are only 5 GB each, and Hard Drives are enormous nowadays.

Happy Hunting!

Now I´m testing Spyron with my heavily modified TMO 25 (without RSRDC) and all seems working fine. Remembering the good old times of PTC with SH1.

Thanks and regards.

Fitzcarraldo
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Old 10-07-15, 09:14 AM   #4369
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are there any ship accuracy mods required for tmo?

olc mod looks good but it isn't compatible with tmo from what ive read.
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Old 10-07-15, 02:59 PM   #4370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laffertytig View Post
are there any ship accuracy mods required for tmo?

olc mod looks good but it isn't compatible with tmo from what ive read.
What is for you the "ship accuracy"?

OLC is for SH3.

Regards.

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Old 10-07-15, 04:25 PM   #4371
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I meant optical targeting correction mod. From reading that mod thread it sounds essential but is it?
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Old 10-07-15, 09:17 PM   #4372
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OTC is not essential, but it is NICE to have. Make sure you follow the installation instructions.
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Old 10-08-15, 06:57 AM   #4373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laffertytig View Post
I meant optical targeting correction mod. From reading that mod thread it sounds essential but is it?
OTC is a must have if you want accurate optics. Also you can use MaxOptics (not so accurate as OTC) and SCAF for TMO. All this is for manual targeting, of course, and a "hard gameplay". If you don´t have practice with SH4, test first with the TMO or RFB or GFO or Stock vanilla optics and TDC.

Best regards.

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Old 10-08-15, 10:30 AM   #4374
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To my way of thinking OTC takes a game with errors in ship lengths and heights, not the same errors they had in real life, but they had many more and more consequential errors than our ship database has.

OTC substitutes the error ridden game database for a database derived by renting each and every Japanese ship on the ocean and taking it to a drydock to subject it to precise measurement and then calls it a "realism" mod. Obviously, the Japanese did not rent us every single ship, military and civilian, for the purpose of letting us obtain precise measurements so we could sink them easier with our submarines. It MIGHT have helped the Japanese to finance the war, though!

In fact, what the Japanese did was disguise cabin profiles and change masthead heights to make our measurements less accurate. They even went so far as to make ships that were scale models of larger ships so they would be misidentified and cause misses.

Study of actual attacks shows that greater than 50% of the time targets were identified incorrectly. It shows that modifications to cabin profiles and masthead heights successfully foiled many, many torpedo shots. And comparison of actual tonnage for submarines and tonnage by SH4 skippers bears out that it is probably on the order of five or six times easier to get a torpedo hit in SH4 than it was in real life.

OTC is for the purpose of making targeting even easier than the one that is already five times easier than it should be! OTC thinks it's reasonable that our identification manual should have no errors. OTC thinks that if you perform your attack perfectly you should have perfect success. Real life didn't work that way.

In its search for perfection, OTC achieves comedy if you're looking for realistic gameplay. In real life you could do everything right and collect plenty of misses. You would never know why you missed either. CapnScurvy finds that unreasonable, and I'm sure the submarine captains of the time thought so also, but it was what it was: reality.

However, for training, OTC is useful. Why? Because it ensures that if you do your job right your target will go boom. If, when you're learning, you get misses, but don't know if the game's targeting mechanism is at fault or your technique, you have a two variable problem. There is no single solution to a two variable problem, so simplifying the situation to where all errors have to be yours makes sense there. That's the only scenario where I would advocate temporary use of OTC.

Now if OTC separated correcting the optics from playing games with the ginned up identification manual I'd be all over it and the optical correction part would be highly recommended for gameplay use.

Last edited by Rockin Robbins; 10-08-15 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 10-08-15, 11:14 AM   #4375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
............. Now if OTC separated correcting the optics from playing games with the ginned up identification manual I'd be all over it and the optical correction part would be highly recommended for gameplay use.
I've come around to Webster's way of thinking and wish OTC was a stand alone mod that only corrected the optics too; without the additional extra features you have described, .... plus a few more.

Well, "Go build my own then" would be an appropriate answer to my remark. - ha!

That said, the OTC is an outstanding mod and I do like it.

Happy Hunting!
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Old 10-08-15, 04:05 PM   #4376
Laffertytig
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yep think rockin robins post has convinced me that OTC mod is definitely a preference and not a requirement.
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Old 10-09-15, 08:29 AM   #4377
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I started to write my rebuttal for RR (which I've done in the past for the old wind bag) but I could see my post was getting as long winded as his........I just deleted it.

Want to "play" his way, you got it. Find the TMO 2.5 Hiryu Carrier with its mast height at 20 meters (65.5 ft) and fire away. You'll miss getting an accurate range to target by 50%. 'Cause, that's the way it's supposed to be!!
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Old 10-09-15, 09:40 AM   #4378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScurvy View Post
I started to write my rebuttal for RR (which I've done in the past for the old wind bag) but I could see my post was getting as long winded as his........I just deleted it.

Want to "play" his way, you got it. Find the TMO 2.5 Hiryu Carrier with its mast height at 20 meters (65.5 ft) and fire away. You'll miss getting an accurate range to target by 50%. 'Cause, that's the way it's supposed to be!!
I want to read your brief!!!

I use OTC and I have a lot of misses. I - I think - am a good player with manual targeting. OTC has a accurate optics but it isn´t a laser sight!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo
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Old 10-09-15, 09:42 AM   #4379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laffertytig View Post
yep think rockin robins post has convinced me that OTC mod is definitely a preference and not a requirement.
Of course, not a requirement, you can play TMO without it and have a lot of fun, but highly recommended for realism. The best: try it yourself.

Regards.

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Old 10-09-15, 11:49 AM   #4380
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ive already started a TMO career with a few exta mods thrown in so il see how I get on.

certainly didn't mean to cause any agro on the forum.
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