Steel Fury 1942 revisited??? (and a minor rant)

Von Due · 12-04-12, 05:56 AM

Looking through my games I found Steel Fury Kharkov 1942. I haven't played this one in a very very long time and I wondered why not so I reinstalled and patched it with Unofficial_patch_SF_v0[1].1_eng and fired it up. Within a few minutes I remembered why I uninstalled it after a few tries but:

Seeing it has been a long time now I was wondering if at least some of the most headache inducing stuff has been fixed:

AI. With no control over your own units (at least none worth mentioning) they really are a bunch of suicidal maniacs with no will to live, no sense of direction or tactics or cover or anything. Right now I find them utterly useless with the only exception being the additional firepower for defending a position and even that is dodgy at best. Strike one. (Ok, in all fairness, the infantry is valuable and useful for the first contact but would be really useful if they didn't just storm off to be blasted to smithereens)

Stop (formation order): Is there any way one can have the units in a defense position without everyone racing off to go intimate with each other? (See AI)

Heavily armored foliage. What sort of shrubbery do they have over there? Not even a king tiger can take the amount of shells those leaves can.

Spotting: I ran the single mission Krasny Gigant and faced the single StuG there. Here's what happened: It came out in the wide open clearing, free line of sight even for my driver, less than 50 meters away and noone ever spotted it. Attempts to manually "spot" it was equally useless. It did not end well. Why did it come out in the open? It spotted me as I moved along the road through the southern forest

and did what all tanks seem to do: Race in to no more than a few tens of meters as they often did back in the days

Strike 2 and 3 and I'm leaving the game.

Right now as it is, I find this game totally unplayable. Granted, I am not a tank wizard, far from it but all that above, it shouts uninstall.

Oh, and is it possible to give that clown who is constantly bellowing "we're hit" for the rest of the mission, a nice warm cup of STFU? Any way to disable that one cry or at least have it played once but not more than once? I have found the German voice files but not the Russian voice files. If they can be located I am considering replacing them with my own so I won't have to rely on the subtitles to know what and where the enemy is.

Skybird · 12-04-12, 06:21 AM

Convert to SBP-PE, and your described troubles are gone.

Gets a new graphics engine this summer also.

SF is pretty much a dead game these days.

Von Due · 12-04-12, 09:10 AM

Thanks for the reply. However, SBP PE is right out (price alone is a no go) and since I already have SF I was hoping there was a way of turning this into something playable.

So it's pretty much dead then? Ok that doesn't look promising. Too many @*#-ups but it's a shame because there is definitely something in this game that just didn't break through the crap.

Just had another test run and again: It's a deal breaker the way things work. I can't believe this thing was actually tested. My machine gun or main gun can't shoot through the same foliage that StuG took his killer shot at me through, makes no sense whatsoever, the same StuG taking 5 AP shots in the juicy spots and kept on going then killing me with one shot... Ok, this is an uninstall.

A shame.

Skybird · 12-04-12, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

SBP PE is right out (price alone is a no go)

Okay I understand that 100 bucks are too expensive for you, but what do you mean by "right out"?

I remember SF, I reviewed it back then and wasn't really enthusiastic about it, with AI, pathfinding logic and sound having been major attractors of my disappointment. Heck, that text caused quite a dance here.

I'm excited about what the new SBP engine will bring.

Von Due · 12-04-12, 09:40 AM

Well, "right out", I am just looking through the games I have seeing if there's anything I'd like to revisit. Winter is here so I'm having a break from RC flying which is my main priority as well as main money and time vampire. Still, I'm now waiting for the ordered X52 Pro setup for some winter game sim flying but now my gaming budget is blown to pieces so no new games at all. So, time and money, really.

EDIT: Beside, WW2 sims have this thing about them. No fancy radar or black magic sensors, just yer old Mk. I Eyeball. Makes things far more interesting to me anyway

Skybird · 12-04-12, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

Beside, WW2 sims have this thing about them. No fancy radar or black magic sensors, just yer old Mk. I Eyeball. Makes things far more interesting to me anyway

SBP missionary says: try this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=191272 ( the many *'s and numbers are a flaw in the forum software, I cannot heal it)

Kyth · 12-05-12, 11:40 PM

I agree with Txema, if you'd like a 2nd opinion on the game, come on over to the Graviteam forums, I can assure you they're far from dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

Seeing it has been a long time now I was wondering if at least some of the most headache inducing stuff has been fixed:

AI. With no control over your own units (at least none worth mentioning) they really are a bunch of suicidal maniacs with no will to live, no sense of direction or tactics or cover or anything. Right now I find them utterly useless with the only exception being the additional firepower for defending a position and even that is dodgy at best. Strike one. (Ok, in all fairness, the infantry is valuable and useful for the first contact but would be really useful if they didn't just storm off to be blasted to smithereens)

I find that it's a matter of scripting.
A lot of the stock missions' scripts force the AI units to bull ahead without any tactical finesse. Interestingly, the basic tactical, unscripted AI shows a better sense of self-preservation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

Stop (formation order): Is there any way one can have the units in a defense position without everyone racing off to go intimate with each other? (See AI)

There's a set of platoon commands in the tactical / briefing map, which you can use, including an order to go into defensive positions. You can also command your tank platoon to spread out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

Spotting: I ran the single mission Krasny Gigant and faced the single StuG there. Here's what happened: It came out in the wide open clearing, free line of sight even for my driver, less than 50 meters away and noone ever spotted it. Attempts to manually "spot" it was equally useless. It did not end well. Why did it come out in the open? It spotted me as I moved along the road through the southern forest

and did what all tanks seem to do: Race in to no more than a few tens of meters as they often did back in the days

Strike 2 and 3 and I'm leaving the game.

Personally I found the mission to be a breeze.

In the T-34 you can stand off and slaughter the early-war German tanks almost at will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

Right now as it is, I find this game totally unplayable. Granted, I am not a tank wizard, far from it but all that above, it shouts uninstall.

Please update the game with the latest mods and give it another try! As mentioned elsewhere, there have been dozens of new playable tanks added in, allowing user-made missions for all periods of WW2. Many of the new missions are also a lot more subtle and make better use of the AI, in my opinion.

Try it again and be pleasantly surprised!

frinik · 12-06-12, 10:00 PM

Hi Guys!

First of all I don' t think Skybird meant to disparage Steel Fury, he simply gave his honest opinion based on his trial of the game when it came out over 4 years ago.He is entitled to his opinion and if it sounds biased well I don't personally believe that any human being can have a purely detached nor objective view as we all have emotions and likes and dislikes .

If I remember my own impressions back then I would have had to agree with Skybird on most points.That being said 4 1/2 years later, having stuck to the game and seen the improvements , new models, new maps, new missions the amazing support given by the games developers even though they did not see a cent in profit on their investment in their own time and money and despite their distributor going belly up almost 3 years ago and their Russian language distributor leaving them in the dust. Let's be honest the AI in Steel Fury ain't stellar!!!! But compared to other games I have played Red Orchestra, TvsT even Arma II it ain't bad either( average would be a fairly accurate assessment). As Kyth said, when it's not wildly pushed in scripted missions the AI can be pretty crafty and cunnign and will surprise you with unexpected flank or sneak attacks and well organised moves.When I compare the AI in SF with the one in T-34 versus Tiger - the rival game to which it's often compared - it's night and day.The AI in TVsT will really make you cry in frustration.

That being said you cannot compare it with more sophisticated games like Steel Beasts or Arma( which I both own and play but only in SP). SF was created by a handful of dedicated programmers on their own time( as they need and have regular jobs to make ends meet) and investing their own money and frankly they pulled quite a feat considering the absence of support.SB or Arma or big titles on the other hand were created by well funded studios with considerable technical and financial means at their disposal.So I think comparing them is like the proverbial apples and oranges. Even in Steel Beast the AI has its moments of weakness.Arma II had good mechanics and is also highly complex but the AI can be at times prone to odd behaviour.There's no such thing as a perfect game or sim.

Now I can honestly say that thanks to dedicated modders and mission makers like Kyth, just to name one, the game has improved and with an impressive number of new models and much better missions SF has not only survived but thrived.There are 3 very active forum where you'll find a surprising number of dedicated fans of the game with passionate conversations, tips, advice, help etc.... This forum ain't one of them... I personally play a variety of game such as Battlefield 3 (MP). CoD MW3, Steel Beasts, Arma II but somehow when I want to play for fun and purely relax and get some good immersion I am always drawn back to SF .

Now whether you, von Due( a pun on fondue???

), want to give it a try is your own business and decision.I ain't in the business of trying to sway people I prefer that they make the decision themselves.Still as Txema pointed out we have our very active main forum on Graviteam.com.Nothing stops you from either registering or simply checking it out and see what's going and decide for yourself if you are going to uninstall the game or give it a go again.

Skybird · 12-07-12, 06:13 AM

I indeed base on the impression the game left with me four years ago. *

I would check the Graviteam links - if they would function. But at my end of the wire I only get "server-ends-connection" messages. It has been like that since a long time, and with both Explorer and Opera. I once tried it from the system of my parents sitting on the other side of the town, maybe two, or one and a half year ago, after having gotten an angry email by somebody complaining that I did not mention FS when somebody asked for actual tank titles. But I got the same result.

If, as Frinik indicates, modders indeed have adressed not only cosmetic stuff, but indeed were able to massively improve the AI, maybe also improved pathfinding and some other issues, then this indeed would be nice, of course, and worth to be mentioned.

* First impressions score. That's why I think it is both silly and presumptous when publishers rush out half-finished games. Latest example has been Carrier Command. If you check their - to make things worse: overmoderated - forums, then you can see that the title is floating dead in the water and many people have abandoned it already. From that messed up start, it will never completely return, even if they show up with miracle patches turning it into a star in half a year or one year or so. The most interest is there at release. Mess up the release, and the title most likely will float in a niche only - even when it starts to deliver later.

AVGWarhawk · 12-07-12, 01:32 PM

I downloaded the game two weeks ago. It was less than enjoyable. I do not play it.

Von Due · 12-07-12, 07:55 PM

Just popping in on my way to sleep. Wow this topic grew! Ok because I'm dead tired right now I'll just reply in a bit of a random order.

I am aware of the map and the orders there but my grief and headache was that the units didn't seem to care a lot about orders. Just one example about defense or stop: I ordered to take up defensive positions. The infantry went in the trenches and the 2 other tanks started a loony race to see who was the most unruly (I take it the scenario designer didn't include any hull down positions). So I had the infantry in the trenches up on the hill and the tank comrades scattered around. Ordered Do As I Do and the infantry started marching back to where they started as the tanks came up to join formation. Ended up telling everyone to Stop. A lunatic asylum... Everyone turned to face where I suspected the Germans to come from and waited for the counter attack.

Now the Germans came and as soon as they were spotted, my 2 other tanks raced off to greet them

Does the word Stop mean something different entirely in the Red Army? 2 runaway tanks against 3 StuG's and 3 Pz III... Then my infantry figured hell why not join in so they too ran in to mingle...

No new types of units can fix this in my eyes. As far as I'm concerned: Unless this was fixed and fixed good, I'll say this game is a dodo. Dead and gone from my HDD and collection.

frinik · 12-07-12, 09:25 PM

You obviously played a vanilla( stock) mission which are not well made nor scripted. There are over 150 user_made missions most very well made and while at times the AI behaviour is irrational it's usually good. What I do is suse the Mission Editor to make my own stuff and whithin it there are scripts assigned to command the AI to adopt defensive or ambush positions and they stick to them and ddon't rush wildly into enemy fire.

I have to agree with you that Graviteam should have implemented some kind of control on the AI's movements and tactics which they did in their Steel Armour Blaze of War( a hybrid rts/sim with modern tanks) but SF was done on a string budget and probably more an experiment and not enough time and resources to polish some aspects of the game.

Too bad your experience was negative but it's a big world out there and plenty of other games to satisfy your craving for good AI..

Kyth · 12-07-12, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Just one example about defense or stop: I ordered to take up defensive positions. The infantry went in the trenches and the 2 other tanks started a loony race to see who was the most unruly (I take it the scenario designer didn't include any hull down positions). So I had the infantry in the trenches up on the hill and the tank comrades scattered around. Ordered Do As I Do and the infantry started marching back to where they started as the tanks came up to join formation. Ended up telling everyone to Stop. A lunatic asylum... Everyone turned to face where I suspected the Germans to come from and waited for the counter attack.

Now the Germans came and as soon as they were spotted, my 2 other tanks raced off to greet them

Does the word Stop mean something different entirely in the Red Army? 2 runaway tanks against 3 StuG's and 3 Pz III... Then my infantry figured hell why not join in so they too ran in to mingle...

It sounds like you're still experimenting with the game commands. For this mission, I'd suggest nothing fancy, just stick with basic Soviet WW2-era tactics - move them all to the objective, eliminate the enemy, then defend. Don't expect too much from your platoon.

Anyway, like I mentioned earlier, I found this mission a breeze.

Now, I'd be the first to say that the AI isn't all it should be! But a lot of folks find enough in the game to like and stick with it, despite all the perceived shortcomings (and there are quite a few). So don't give up!

woofiedog · 01-09-13, 06:06 PM

You should really checkout these sites for some SF info and give the game a second look over.

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php

http://tanksim.org.ru/modules/wfdown...wcat.php?cid=5

http://panzersim.forumotion.com/f24-graviteam

What you would need are these mods for your setup.

1. Unofficial patch_SF_v0.1_(ENG)
2. SPM 1.5 beta
3. SPM1.5 UU
4. Upd_Nov_2012(NTA]
5. fix_05

Also checkout the season/weather mods & sound mods.

Good Luck

12-04-12, 05:56 AM	#1
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,660 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Steel Fury 1942 revisited??? (and a minor rant) Looking through my games I found Steel Fury Kharkov 1942. I haven't played this one in a very very long time and I wondered why not so I reinstalled and patched it with Unofficial_patch_SF_v0[1].1_eng and fired it up. Within a few minutes I remembered why I uninstalled it after a few tries but: Seeing it has been a long time now I was wondering if at least some of the most headache inducing stuff has been fixed: AI. With no control over your own units (at least none worth mentioning) they really are a bunch of suicidal maniacs with no will to live, no sense of direction or tactics or cover or anything. Right now I find them utterly useless with the only exception being the additional firepower for defending a position and even that is dodgy at best. Strike one. (Ok, in all fairness, the infantry is valuable and useful for the first contact but would be really useful if they didn't just storm off to be blasted to smithereens) Stop (formation order): Is there any way one can have the units in a defense position without everyone racing off to go intimate with each other? (See AI) Heavily armored foliage. What sort of shrubbery do they have over there? Not even a king tiger can take the amount of shells those leaves can. Spotting: I ran the single mission Krasny Gigant and faced the single StuG there. Here's what happened: It came out in the wide open clearing, free line of sight even for my driver, less than 50 meters away and noone ever spotted it. Attempts to manually "spot" it was equally useless. It did not end well. Why did it come out in the open? It spotted me as I moved along the road through the southern forest and did what all tanks seem to do: Race in to no more than a few tens of meters as they often did back in the days Strike 2 and 3 and I'm leaving the game. Right now as it is, I find this game totally unplayable. Granted, I am not a tank wizard, far from it but all that above, it shouts uninstall. Oh, and is it possible to give that clown who is constantly bellowing "we're hit" for the rest of the mission, a nice warm cup of STFU? Any way to disable that one cry or at least have it played once but not more than once? I have found the German voice files but not the Russian voice files. If they can be located I am considering replacing them with my own so I won't have to rely on the subtitles to know what and where the enemy is. Last edited by Von Due; 12-04-12 at 06:11 AM.

12-04-12, 06:21 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,496 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Convert to SBP-PE, and your described troubles are gone. Gets a new graphics engine this summer also. SF is pretty much a dead game these days. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-06-12, 10:00 PM	#8
frinik Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 897 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	SF Hi Guys! First of all I don' t think Skybird meant to disparage Steel Fury, he simply gave his honest opinion based on his trial of the game when it came out over 4 years ago.He is entitled to his opinion and if it sounds biased well I don't personally believe that any human being can have a purely detached nor objective view as we all have emotions and likes and dislikes . If I remember my own impressions back then I would have had to agree with Skybird on most points.That being said 4 1/2 years later, having stuck to the game and seen the improvements , new models, new maps, new missions the amazing support given by the games developers even though they did not see a cent in profit on their investment in their own time and money and despite their distributor going belly up almost 3 years ago and their Russian language distributor leaving them in the dust. Let's be honest the AI in Steel Fury ain't stellar!!!! But compared to other games I have played Red Orchestra, TvsT even Arma II it ain't bad either( average would be a fairly accurate assessment). As Kyth said, when it's not wildly pushed in scripted missions the AI can be pretty crafty and cunnign and will surprise you with unexpected flank or sneak attacks and well organised moves.When I compare the AI in SF with the one in T-34 versus Tiger - the rival game to which it's often compared - it's night and day.The AI in TVsT will really make you cry in frustration. That being said you cannot compare it with more sophisticated games like Steel Beasts or Arma( which I both own and play but only in SP). SF was created by a handful of dedicated programmers on their own time( as they need and have regular jobs to make ends meet) and investing their own money and frankly they pulled quite a feat considering the absence of support.SB or Arma or big titles on the other hand were created by well funded studios with considerable technical and financial means at their disposal.So I think comparing them is like the proverbial apples and oranges. Even in Steel Beast the AI has its moments of weakness.Arma II had good mechanics and is also highly complex but the AI can be at times prone to odd behaviour.There's no such thing as a perfect game or sim. Now I can honestly say that thanks to dedicated modders and mission makers like Kyth, just to name one, the game has improved and with an impressive number of new models and much better missions SF has not only survived but thrived.There are 3 very active forum where you'll find a surprising number of dedicated fans of the game with passionate conversations, tips, advice, help etc.... This forum ain't one of them... I personally play a variety of game such as Battlefield 3 (MP). CoD MW3, Steel Beasts, Arma II but somehow when I want to play for fun and purely relax and get some good immersion I am always drawn back to SF . Now whether you, von Due( a pun on fondue???), want to give it a try is your own business and decision.I ain't in the business of trying to sway people I prefer that they make the decision themselves.Still as Txema pointed out we have our very active main forum on Graviteam.com.Nothing stops you from either registering or simply checking it out and see what's going and decide for yourself if you are going to uninstall the game or give it a go again.

12-07-12, 06:13 AM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,496 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I indeed base on the impression the game left with me four years ago. * I would check the Graviteam links - if they would function. But at my end of the wire I only get "server-ends-connection" messages. It has been like that since a long time, and with both Explorer and Opera. I once tried it from the system of my parents sitting on the other side of the town, maybe two, or one and a half year ago, after having gotten an angry email by somebody complaining that I did not mention FS when somebody asked for actual tank titles. But I got the same result. If, as Frinik indicates, modders indeed have adressed not only cosmetic stuff, but indeed were able to massively improve the AI, maybe also improved pathfinding and some other issues, then this indeed would be nice, of course, and worth to be mentioned. * First impressions score. That's why I think it is both silly and presumptous when publishers rush out half-finished games. Latest example has been Carrier Command. If you check their - to make things worse: overmoderated - forums, then you can see that the title is floating dead in the water and many people have abandoned it already. From that messed up start, it will never completely return, even if they show up with miracle patches turning it into a star in half a year or one year or so. The most interest is there at release. Mess up the release, and the title most likely will float in a niche only - even when it starts to deliver later. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

12-07-12, 09:25 PM	#12
frinik Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 897 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	SF rant You obviously played a vanilla( stock) mission which are not well made nor scripted. There are over 150 user_made missions most very well made and while at times the AI behaviour is irrational it's usually good. What I do is suse the Mission Editor to make my own stuff and whithin it there are scripts assigned to command the AI to adopt defensive or ambush positions and they stick to them and ddon't rush wildly into enemy fire. I have to agree with you that Graviteam should have implemented some kind of control on the AI's movements and tactics which they did in their Steel Armour Blaze of War( a hybrid rts/sim with modern tanks) but SF was done on a string budget and probably more an experiment and not enough time and resources to polish some aspects of the game. Too bad your experience was negative but it's a big world out there and plenty of other games to satisfy your craving for good AI..

12-04-12, 09:10 AM	#3
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,660 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the reply. However, SBP PE is right out (price alone is a no go) and since I already have SF I was hoping there was a way of turning this into something playable. So it's pretty much dead then? Ok that doesn't look promising. Too many @*#-ups but it's a shame because there is definitely something in this game that just didn't break through the crap. Just had another test run and again: It's a deal breaker the way things work. I can't believe this thing was actually tested. My machine gun or main gun can't shoot through the same foliage that StuG took his killer shot at me through, makes no sense whatsoever, the same StuG taking 5 AP shots in the juicy spots and kept on going then killing me with one shot... Ok, this is an uninstall. A shame.

12-04-12, 09:40 AM	#5
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,660 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Well, "right out", I am just looking through the games I have seeing if there's anything I'd like to revisit. Winter is here so I'm having a break from RC flying which is my main priority as well as main money and time vampire. Still, I'm now waiting for the ordered X52 Pro setup for some winter game sim flying but now my gaming budget is blown to pieces so no new games at all. So, time and money, really. EDIT: Beside, WW2 sims have this thing about them. No fancy radar or black magic sensors, just yer old Mk. I Eyeball. Makes things far more interesting to me anyway

12-07-12, 01:32 PM	#10
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 27,343 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	I downloaded the game two weeks ago. It was less than enjoyable. I do not play it.

12-07-12, 07:55 PM	#11
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,660 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Just popping in on my way to sleep. Wow this topic grew! Ok because I'm dead tired right now I'll just reply in a bit of a random order. I am aware of the map and the orders there but my grief and headache was that the units didn't seem to care a lot about orders. Just one example about defense or stop: I ordered to take up defensive positions. The infantry went in the trenches and the 2 other tanks started a loony race to see who was the most unruly (I take it the scenario designer didn't include any hull down positions). So I had the infantry in the trenches up on the hill and the tank comrades scattered around. Ordered Do As I Do and the infantry started marching back to where they started as the tanks came up to join formation. Ended up telling everyone to Stop. A lunatic asylum... Everyone turned to face where I suspected the Germans to come from and waited for the counter attack. Now the Germans came and as soon as they were spotted, my 2 other tanks raced off to greet them Does the word Stop mean something different entirely in the Red Army? 2 runaway tanks against 3 StuG's and 3 Pz III... Then my infantry figured hell why not join in so they too ran in to mingle... No new types of units can fix this in my eyes. As far as I'm concerned: Unless this was fixed and fixed good, I'll say this game is a dodo. Dead and gone from my HDD and collection.

01-09-13, 06:06 PM	#14
woofiedog Engineer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New England Posts: 216 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	You should really checkout these sites for some SF info and give the game a second look over. http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php http://tanksim.org.ru/modules/wfdown...wcat.php?cid=5 http://panzersim.forumotion.com/f24-graviteam What you would need are these mods for your setup. 1. Unofficial patch_SF_v0.1_(ENG) 2. SPM 1.5 beta 3. SPM1.5 UU 4. Upd_Nov_2012(NTA] 5. fix_05 Also checkout the season/weather mods & sound mods. Good Luck __________________