[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[CapnScurvy]

Guy's I've been in New York the last couple of days...still on vacation, but returning soon.

Regarding the sensors of the Ultimate .1 beta. The only changes I've made has been to the actual parameters of the equipment used......not to how its used. The various equipment Hydrophone/Sonar; or Radar....both SJ and SD; and their early/late versions have been modified to match the found figures in the "Weapons and Sensors" page, which are as close as I can have them work as in real life. Those specifications are matching what I believe to be the most authentic measured capabilities of the equipment.

What I've yet to look at is how the game uses those sensors. The games sensors .cfg files for both the sub and the AI have not been changed from what FOTRS used (where did they come from? What's the difference between one and another compared to the stock .cfg files remains to be seen). I'm suspecting this is where you're finding difficultly in what the game is doing with its sensors. I've got a plan on how to eliminate all other sensors inputs, except for the one I'm wanting to test, then run different .cfg changes through the game to find the balance of each sensor for playable gaming. The separate sensor types are:
Visual
Hydrophone
Sonar
Radar

I'll first work on each sensor to have it preform as expected, then work within the .cfg file to have each sensors "modifier" work with the others to preform as expected The "modifier's" are in the .cfg files. The actual equipment specifications/capabilities are in the games .dat file.

One thing I've noticed (and by the way, corrected with the mod still on my computer) is the sub crews visual ability to report ships at distances that seem authentic, yet you look at the bearing through binoculars......you'll not see a thing. There's no reason to not see past 5 miles distance, yet the crew can. My fix is to have the player "see" those targets the crew reports (its the logical thing to do). There will be a limit, so don't think there won't be one, but its my consideration to have things like the crew see things, and you cannot, work as expected. It will.

Then there's the sensors of the game AI opponent, and how correct are they compared to authentic capabilities, and the application of the modifiers from the .cfg files. FOTRS has a lot of new sensor types added to the game over the stock game. For instance the stock game has one visual AI type called "AI_Visual". FOTRS uses about six different visual types for the various ships/planes it puts in the game. Nothing easy about checking each type of visual capabilities, then trying to see just how the difference of one does over another. Going to take some time to do it right.

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Guy's I've been in New York the last couple of days...still on vacation, but returning soon.

Regarding the sensors of the Ultimate .1 beta. The only changes I've made has been to the actual parameters of the equipment used......not to how its used. The various equipment Hydrophone/Sonar; or Radar....both SJ and SD; and their early/late versions have been modified to match the found figures in the "Weapons and Sensors" page, which are as close as I can have them work as in real life. Those specifications are matching what I believe to be the most authentic measured capabilities of the equipment.

What I've yet to look at is how the game uses those sensors. The games sensors .cfg files for both the sub and the AI have not been changed from what FOTRS used (where did they come from? What's the difference between one and another compared to the stock .cfg files remains to be seen). I'm suspecting this is where you're finding difficultly in what the game is doing with its sensors. I've got a plan on how to eliminate all other sensors inputs, except for the one I'm wanting to test, then run different .cfg changes through the game to find the balance of each sensor for playable gaming. The separate sensor types are:
Visual
Hydrophone
Sonar
Radar

I'll first work on each sensor to have it preform as expected, then work within the .cfg file to have each sensors "modifier" work with the others to preform as expected The "modifier's" are in the .cfg files. The actual equipment specifications/capabilities are in the games .dat file.

One thing I've noticed (and by the way, corrected with the mod still on my computer) is the sub crews visual ability to report ships at distances that seem authentic, yet you look at the bearing through binoculars......you'll not see a thing. There's no reason to not see past 5 miles distance, yet the crew can. My fix is to have the player "see" those targets the crew reports (its the logical thing to do). There will be a limit, so don't think there won't be one, but its my consideration to have things like the crew see things, and you cannot, work as expected. It will.

Then there's the sensors of the game AI opponent, and how correct are they compared to authentic capabilities, and the application of the modifiers from the .cfg files. FOTRS has a lot of new sensor types added to the game over the stock game. For instance the stock game has one visual AI type called "AI_Visual". FOTRS uses about six different visual types for the various ships/planes it puts in the game. Nothing easy about checking each type of visual capabilities, then trying to see just how the difference of one does over another. Going to take some time to do it right.

This all sounds fantastic
Good work

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

... So the ocean was litterally crawling with those hunter-killer groups. Nasty lot they are! Turns a hunting game into a hiding game.

That's for U-boats!

Please seal the changes into a JSGME installable bottle and leave overnight on Funk and Wagnall's front porch (the Some Assembly Required directory).

Do you want to have it to where a person can have an "authentic FotRS v2 experience" with the "Killer" groups as an add-on choice, or the "close-to-authenticly real life" amount of them as a choice? Will removing them in this manner mess with "spawning" in the campaign? Also, since MadMax put more of those in there, did he by chance reduce the number of escorting vessels in the campaign. I was reading where Ducimus in v1.6 (and I have no idea if he carried it through all the other versions) was using "global" calls in the campaign missions to put certain ships with certain things, including Hunter/Killer groups (so he did the ASW -AND- the airplaines... yikes!). Is that carried through into FotRS v1.3 & v2?...
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Originally Posted by aanker

I have Trigger Maru 1.7 & Trigger Maru 1.7.2 if you want it.

Yes, I would *love* to get v1.7 & the 1.7.2 update. I have a DropBox and a MediaFire account I could give you a share to, if you want to PM me. If you happen to have access to the group's Google Drive, put it up there. I would be eternally grateful... - I don't know if you can upload here, but I couldn't find it on SubSim.
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@ CapnScurvy: See the Root/WIP/Propbeanie Spreadsheets folder in the Google Drive. I do not have anything up for the sub's sensors, but there's the Sim.cfg, Sensor.cfg and the Contacts.cfg files spreadsheeted with Stock v1.5, FotRS U, TMO 2.5, all 5 of the level settings (as appropriate) and FotRS 1.3 (as appropriate), with little propbeanie notations... I've discovered that you can right-click a file, choose "Open with..." and then "Google Sheets" and view them online without having to download. It'll then leave a cached version of that in your folder. If you guys want any further or additional stuff done like that, give a shout...

Right now, I'm hiding out in our basement, doing the "Storm move East" dance, trying to send these tornadoes to Nevada, Ohio... We've lost power here several times near Indianapolis. Not cool...
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[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Right now, I'm hiding out in our basement, doing the "Storm move East" dance, trying to send these tornadoes to Nevada, Ohio...

That's OK.
I'm in Colon, Michigan right now.

[propbeanie]

curses, foiled again... - It's some rather nasty stuff, should go Columbus way, more East than North with this group of storms. Several tornadoes on the ground, and for a while, they were just saying "Shelter in place wherever you are now in Central Indiana. Repeat..." Slightly scary. But then again, it is the newscast, and they *like* it that way... Hopefully, no harm to anyone East of us.

Looks like it's quiet for now. Time to go see how much chainsaw time I have, and if I've got firewood for this winter... :wink:

[cdrsubron7]

We've been discussing the sensors and I just remembered a couple of incidents while I was out patolling and wondering that the Japanese DDs could possibly detect me.

I was in in a total monsoon, raining so hard you can't possibly see anything. I pick up a task force heading northeast toward Tokyo Bay. I turned to a intercept course and noticed two of the blips on radar had peeled off and were heading straight for me. I crashed dive and headed towards the rest of the task force. I still haven't figured how those two DDs knew where to find me other than they were physic and saw me coming.

[propbeanie]

I go with clairvoyancy, or chicken bones, or tea leaves...

But that's what happened to me the other day, in mid-1942. The ones in 1945, OK, maybe radar detectors, but still, straight at me?. What are the odds that you're on the same path as one of the Hunter / Killer groups?

[aanker]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Yes, I would *love* to get v1.7 & the 1.7.2 update. I have a DropBox and a MediaFire account I could give you a share to, if you want to PM me. If you happen to have access to the group's Google Drive, put it up there. I would be eternally grateful... - I don't know if you can upload here, but I couldn't find it on SubSim.

Yes, I can upload here to Subsim. I'll put them up tomorrow.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

I was in in a total monsoon, raining so hard you can't possibly see anything. I pick up a task force heading northeast toward Tokyo Bay. I turned to a intercept course and noticed two of the blips on radar had peeled off and were heading straight for me......... I still haven't figured how those two DDs knew where to find me other than they were physic and saw me coming.

That's going to be my second issue to look at.

My first issue is to have the sub sensors work as expected. Since I think I've got the subs "equipment" capabilities addressed.......my next task is to make sure the "modifiers" for the equipment (the .cfg files) will work as expected.

It's then that the AI's "equipment" (from the AI's .dat files) will need to be looked at, compared to the subs equipment capabilities (we don't need to have the AI equipment to have superior capabilities over the subs capabilities...... if they shouldn't have it). THEN, the AI's "modifiers" (found in the AI's .cfg files) will need to be balanced to make things work as expected. As I pointed out, the FOTRS AI equipment has several additional "types" to work with, so it isn't going to be a "quick fix" just to have them work as expected.

Hopefully, I'll get the subs modifications done first, put it up for all to check out. Then I'll get started on the AI's part.

[Rockin Robbins]

If CapnScurvy fixes it it will be done right. We'll wait for the rebalance and meld it into the core mod. Great observations there!

Propbeanie, yes, let's have the "Authentic FOTRS 2.0 Experience" plugin for those who want to see what would have happened had the American subs been on the Axis side. Lots of people are under the impression that the superior American subs were so superior it's a good thing the Germans didn't have them. American subs would have made no difference to them and the "Authentic FOTRS 2.0 Experience" will let people try out the theory to prove it for themselves. THAT is the highest use of a simulation. I love your idea!

Watching Invest 99L rain all over Puerto Rico. Hope it comes to Florida instead of hightailing it into the Gulf. That would be like pouring gasoline on a small fire. And odds are the thing would blow up to a hurricane and head straight to Louisiana. We can take it. They can't.

CDRsubron7, your mod should be ANTI-Hunter Killer because we'll have a plugin to add them back in the game. Of course players won't see your mod because it will be part of the core mod. It's just so my demented brain doesn't get confused.

I have a bit of a surprise brewing and I think you'll enjoy it. Soundtrack isn't good because I used my webcam microphone instead of my headset. But who cares about the narration! We'll see what I get there. Edit in progress!

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

... I have a bit of a surprise brewing and I think you'll enjoy it. Soundtrack isn't good because I used my webcam microphone instead of my headset. But who cares about the narration! We'll see what I get there.

I know you like the "as it happens" type of video, and it does lend a good amount of suspense, since you don't know what's going to happen either until it does (which is very entertaining, besides being informative), but if you want some audio "cleaned-up" a bit, or want to add another sound track on top of what you have, and don't have the software tools for it, let me know and I can do it for you. If you want to add another sound track on top of what you have, just re-record the audio as you're watching the video, and I could either blend them together, or eliminate the original and put the new on top. If you want to blend several camera angles, fade-in or fade-out, spin-in & out, text, that kind of stuff, etc., I can do that. Want an epic block-buster? Well... that might be a bit tough, but it can be done

Oh, almost forgot: Have you seen the spreadsheet stuff, and is it useable? Any other additions to it? aanker said he was going to try to upload v1.7 later today, so that could also be added in... ??
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[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I know you like the "as it happens" type of video, and it does lend a good amount of suspense, since you don't know what's going to happen either until it does (which is very entertaining, besides being informative), but if you want some audio "cleaned-up" a bit, or want to add another sound track on top of what you have, and don't have the software tools for it, let me know and I can do it for you. If you want to add another sound track on top of what you have, just re-record the audio as you're watching the video, and I could either blend them together, or eliminate the original and put the new on top. If you want to blend several camera angles, fade-in or fade-out, spin-in & out, text, that kind of stuff, etc., I can do that. Want an epic block-buster? Well... that might be a bit tough, but it can be done

Oh, almost forgot: Have you seen the spreadsheet stuff, and is it useable? Any other additions to it? aanker said he was going to try to upload v1.7 later today, so that could also be added in... ??
.

Great idea on adding v1.7 to the spreadsheet. It contains all that I can identify of what's important in replicating the various settings.

I'm using the recorded video from the game so I can reshoot at will. But it takes some time to do that. Last time the CPU froze up five minutes into the action and the effect was pretty cool so I'm publishing as is for now. I'll strip down my Windows workspace with Game Booster and do it again if we think it would be good.

[cdrsubron7]

CDRsubron7, your mod should be ANTI-Hunter Killer because we'll have a plugin to add them back in the game. Of course players won't see your mod because it will be part of the core mod. It's just so my demented brain doesn't get confused.

Got ya, boss. I'll take care of the renaming tonight after I get home from work.

[Rockin Robbins]

Okay, just for pure curiosity let's take five Japanese battleships and five American battleships and put them in line ahead with columns 10 miles apart. I'll bet this will get interesting......

Click on the screenie for video!

[cdrsubron7]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Okay, just for pure curiosity let's take five Japanese battleships and five American battleships and put them in line ahead with columns 10 miles apart. I'll bet this will get interesting......

Click on the screenie for video!

Kewl!!!!!