US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Hawk66

@August. You do not simply understand. It is not only about Trump and it is not about that he get only reelected one time at most. It is the corruption within a democracy and the lost faith of people in that this system is able to handle the challenges.

As Max the Pug would say "this is absolutely ridiculous", sixty some million people proved that they lost faith in our lousy brand of politicians BEFORE Trump held office. If anything, just by being elected Trump has unmasked the vast corruption that was being hidden from us. Deep State? Yeah it's a thing. If the media accurately reported on Trump his approval numbers would likely be 20% higher, and he'd have a Nobel Peace Prize by now. If the media accurately reported on the deep state there would be people in jail by now for things other than tax evasion(well maybe they could get Al Sharpton finally too), and they wouldn't be people who work or worked for Trump.



Trump's corruption? It's child's play compared to the previous administration's or his opponent's. CHILD's PLAY


Oh, and I wish Trump could get reelected more than once. ROTFLMFAO

[Dowly]

I liked the part in the Mueller report where Trump reportedly said:
"My God. This is the end of my presidency. I'm ****ed!"

Oh oh oh, and those bits where Trump reportedly ordered his staff to obstruct justice, but they refused.


You know, stuff innocent people do.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Dowly

I liked the part in the Mueller report where Trump reportedly said:
"My God. This is the end of my presidency. I'm ****ed!"

Oh oh oh, and those bits where Trump reportedly ordered his staff to obstruct justice, but they refused.


You know, stuff innocent people do.

Without the vast corruption of the previous administration and the corruption of Trump's opponent there wouldn't even be a Mueller report. If Trump's opponent wasn't sooooo corrupt she might not even have been Trump's opponent, and Bernie Sanders might be president right now. LMAO

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hawk66

I agree mostly to what you said, Skybird, but we should not make the mistake to think that European people are smarter than the people of the other side of the Atlantic.

I did not say nor imply that. I remembered the math behind the eleciton outcome, how many, or how loittle people in the Us voted for and still support Trump. Its not as if a slight majority of American population, is behind him, has voted for him. Substarct those who were not eligiuble to vote, substratc those who did not care to vote, and of those voters who went voting: substract those who did not vote Trump. And of those you are left with you now substaratc those who meanwhile learned to regret their deciison and who have cancewlled their support: you are left with a rough estimation of around one in fiv,e probaly even less.


Trump in no way speaks for a majority of all the American people. Not even close to.

See the situation in our own country, see that AFD (which has also strong ties to the Kremlin) is now leading the polls in eastern Germany. See how Putins propaganda has succeeded (I know that it is not the only reason) that the Social democratic party manages preventing to raise the defense budget significantly and the conservatives simply do not want to endanger the coalition since there is no support by the people for this (defense)...

...what is especially worrying to me is that a lot of young people buy parts of the Putin's propaganda, since they have no link to the cold war and its roots and the continuous struggle between freedom and dictatorship. They think it (being free) is free lunch.

Its discouraging to see people always falling fore the sam elies and sorts of propaganda, may it be the nationalist "right", or the social-justrice-progressive "left". Its for no reason I do support neither our poltical system as it is, or any political party of professional politicians. Its all a big disease. And it infects everything.



Putin, he is neitehr left or reight, he is pragmnatically doing what serves his ambiitons and power interests. Thats why it is no contrsadiction if Russia supports extreme left or extreme right camps. Its pure opportunism, like a musician playing on his flute.



when I think of it, from the left to the right, from the progressives to the nationaolistrs, form the special interest lobbies to the careeer polticians, all these wiorld improvers and holy messiahs of jstice and poeace and equality, they all have one thing in common: they all want to be in command over people, want the power to rule what people cna and cannot do, can and cannot think, say, feel. They all want to be great commanders on behalf of heir own view of things, they all are hidden dictators, and they all agree to totalitarianism if only it is pratrccies in support of their views, becasue then it is a good and just thing, and if their oppoinents promote it, then it is bad and evil.



The older I get, the more tired and sick I get of this rotten stinking smelly game. And people continue to fall for it again and agaiun and again and again and again, generaitomn for generation for generation, century for century. Man does not learn. Never. Tell him sweet lies, and he starts grinning like an imbecile and says "Jawohl mein Führer" - no matter who the liar is. I must conclude: people want to be lied to to and want to get betrayed and abused and subjugated. Its hard to work for your own independence and freedom, its so much easier to accepot slavery and dog-ship while putting your money on that your perosnal glory will increase by celebrating the glorious shine of the liar putting himself above you. Freedom is risk, is responsibilty for oneself, is effort - a golden cage luring you inside with false promises is so much easier to accept.





Had this this morning.


https://www.ortneronline.at/die-aufe...r-ueblen-idee/

English: https://translate.google.de/translat...ueblen-idee%2F


Damn, that is so true.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Trump in no way speaks for a majority of all the American people. Not even close to.

Hopefully everyone will keep believing what they're being fed. The November 2016 election was almost worth it just for the looks on all mainstream media faces that night alone.

[Buddahaid]

Apparently you are.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Trump in no way speaks for a majority of all the American people. Not even close to.

Who does?

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Apparently you are.

If Obama had been in office these last two years with the same successes as Trump has had, the picture below would be how the mainstream media would be treating him. Hell, they treated him that way anyway. LOL ...and in Trump's case these successes come despite the opposition of the media, hollywood, the democrats, the tech sector leadership, the deep state, etc.

[Buddahaid]

[August]

"My God. This is the end of my presidency. I'm ****ed!"

Typical fake news tactic. Cherry pick part of a conversation in order to deliberately mislead people as to it's meaning.
As WoPo put it:

Neither are false quote but both are taken terribly out of context. In the full report Trump is making these comments while saying that it will make getting his agenda done much harder. The full quote is below.
We are being manipulated daily.
According to notes written by Hunt , when Sessions told the President that a Special Counsel had been appointed, the President slumped back in his chair and said, “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m *****”
The President became angry and lambasted the Attorney General for his decision to recuse from the investigation , stating, “How could you let this happen, Jeff?”
The President said the position of Attorney General was his most important appointment and that Sessions had ” let [him] down ,” contrasting him to Eric Holder and Robert Kennedy.
Sessions recalled that the President said to him, “you were supposed to protect me,” or words to that effect. The President returned to the consequences of the appointment and said, “Everyone tells me if you get one of these independent counsels it ruin s your presidency . It takes years and years and I won ‘t be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me.”

http://whatsonpolitics.com/democrats...nt-stop-lying/
They aren't fooling anyone except perhaps some foreigners and the party faithful. The rest of the American people see it for the crap that it is so I for one hope the Dems and their media friends keep it up. It only makes Trumps reelection a surer thing.

[Armistead]

What we really have regarding Trump is this as far as I can make out.

An investigation was opened up on Trump for collusion, but many feel it was done so on a false premise. Trump said it was a witch hunt by GOP haters and Democrats. As we know, Mueller found no collusion by Trump and we're getting ready to hit a mass of investigations on the false premise.

Even tho there was no collusion, the possible charge is, did Trump obstruct the investigation? Can one legally obstruct something that didn't exist? The technical answer seems to be yes. That is usually how these things go, as such happened to Clinton. Special Councils have so much power, along with the FBI, they become very intimidating. It should be when they know they have nothing on the original investigation, such as they didn't on Clinton with Whitewater or Trump on collusion, they keeping going down the line for years investigating every person, connection, often for decades to find something, anything. In the end they got Bill lying about a BJ under oath. They are trying to get Trump obstructing something that didn't exist, collusion. Again, Mueller didn't leave collusion open, he said NONE.

The danger for presidents is during this, they face a mass of propaganda attacks from the other side. The political response is to respond with your own propaganda. It's really a must, because propaganda controls most people. The danger is your propaganda in combating the opposing side often conflicts with what you say under oath... Such seems to be the case with most Trump officials, as many of them are being caught as telling two different things under oath and to the media. It's not illegal, but an ethical matter, but it works to your opponents advantage because they aren't under oath being investigated.

Since Mueller can't indict a sitting president, it seems he left it open with several points on obstruction on the collusion investigation and passed it to congress. Most constitutional scholars are in the camp, there's just nothing much there, some ethical issues, but no crimes that can be proven. For instance, was Trump firing of Comey obstruction as Mueller hinted and Dems are using. The constitutional issue tho is, Trump could legally fire Comey for any reason he wants! So the weak obstruction argument is, what were Trump's motives in firing Comey. The legal system then must become the thought police, which is dangerous and on the edge of unconstitutional. Virtually every Mueller point on possible obstruction falls in this realm or proving motive for a crime that doesn't exist. Really all it gives is Dems ethical talking points, not grounds for high crimes leading to impeachment and the GOP will have a mass of the same when all their investigations hit on how this all went down as they are doing now.

It may work to the Dems advantage in the end if they have a nom that has clean hands on all this. Dems would gladly sacrifice Hillary, her cronies, ever Obama and his, Comey and the GOP haters that have been in their camp to win the presidency.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Russia succeeded in destablising, tremendously, two major Western powers and eroding and/or paralysing them from within and corrupting their political structures. Brexit and Trumpian polarization will be named as two of the most successful intel destabilistion operations of Russian services ever, they did not manage that success during the cold war. The Crimean operation ("little green men") not even counted. From a purely technical point of view: congratulations. But every fifth american or so even believes it is indeed something good!


Its like Aikido. Dont use your own power - take the opponents power and direct it against himself. That needs not so much own power, but clean technical skill, its a difficult technique. Putin, this old KGB fox, excels in that. And so many people in America buy it!

The irony is that by attributing the current situation to Russia you do not focus on the real causes and fall deeper into the hole.


Overestimating your opponents is no less dangerous than underestimating them.


But sadly western expertise in relation to Russia is dead and while the older generation of experts and academia understands that they use politically and ideologically motivated sources the younger generation does not and rarely knows the context of even their subject matter.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by August

Typical fake news tactic. Cherry pick part of a conversation in order to deliberately mislead people as to it's meaning.
As WoPo put it:

That full quote sure makes it better... somehow. In fact, this is part of the evidence section of the OoJ portion of the report where the SC found "substantial evidence" that Trump was seeking to remove the SC. (Pg.78)


PS. Speaking of fake news, your article states that Trump didn't try to stop the investigation. That's a bit misleading.

c. Intent. Substantial evidence indicates that the President's effort to have Sessions
limit the scope of the Special Counsel 's investigation to future election interference was intended
to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the President's and his campaign's conduct.

As previously described, see Volume II, Section II.B, supra, the President knew that the
Russia investigation was focused in part on his campaign, and he perceived allegations of Russian
interference to cast doubt on the legitimacy of his election. The President further knew that the
investigation had broadened to include his own conduct and whether he had obstructed justice.
Those investigations would not proceed if the Special Counsel's jurisdiction were limited to future
election interference only.

(Pg.97)

[August]

I guess if you get upset that your political opponents have launched a witch hunt against you using the power of the federal government and that it's going to seriously hamstring you from doing your job then it just MUST be obstruction to show it even if you don't actually use your power to stop it.

[Dowly]

Trump was under investigation by a Republican Special Counsel appointed by a Republican Deputy Attorney General (who was appointed by Trump) to investigate his firing of the Republican director of the (traditionally conservative) FBI who was investigating allegations of collusion already.


Yeah, damn those Democrats!