The wheel of death and dispair

NoExcuses · 02-06-18, 06:56 PM

Hello all!

I'm here to ask you guys if anyone has a link to a tutorial, or a knowledge and wants to share it with me and other Kaleuns about the Attack Disc. I'm using Ahnanerbe Wide Gui, not the OLC's one. I've seen people using the OLC's disc but they work differently from what I saw..

Thanks in advance

stork100 · 02-06-18, 07:18 PM

Hi. Just to confirm, I assume you're talking about the one that drops down around the periscope?

NoExcuses · 02-07-18, 05:41 PM

Hi! Yeah, I'm talking about the one that drops around the periscope, the one from Ahnanerbe 1920x1080 Wide Gui, to be exact. I'm really having problems figuring out how to use it..

NoExcuses · 02-07-18, 06:15 PM

Allrights guys, I think I have it sorted! Thanks, Bstanko6, I found your attack disc tutorial. I see you're not using the Ahnanerbe One, but the main principal is the same I'd say. The only thing that's different on my wheel is I have to divide some numbers by 2, then it's pretty much the same as the one you're using. The weird thing is that on the periscope tick marks it looks like it should be counted as times 2, but on the wheel you need to put 2x times lower numbers, hm. Anyway

Thanks, I think I can finally use it properly!

stork100 · 02-07-18, 10:35 PM

I'll just offer my take on it for what it's worth. First off, bstanko6's tutorial on the Range Angle on Bow Finder (RAOBF) really is quite comprehensive in explanation of how it works, but as you've noticed, the Ahnenerbe WideGui version does render slightly differently leading to some confusion.

I'm interested that you've raised this thread because I've been working through this subject quite a lot lately and still have some questions myself. Unfortunately, as far as I can search, the discrepancies that exist with this particular version haven't been well documented, at least not correctly in my opinion. Since bstanko6's tutorial explains everything on how it works, I'll just offer a few of my own observations and some practical advice on how I'm using it in this Gui at the moment.

So the first thing, just some basics to always keep in mind:

1. Zoom: Use x6 when measuring range and aob for simplicity when entering your data (no need to convert). Zoom doesn't matter for speed.

2. Speed: Must be at 0 knots to get an accurate reading in most instances.

3. Remember that the units for range on the wheel are in hectometres (x100), the same as the range dial on the TDC.

Observations/Advice:
--------------------

* As far as I know at this time, the tick marks for range and aob work correctly, so you just simply count how many. No need to multiply or divide. So, where it says 10 on the scope is actually 5 out from the center. However, be sure to count any partial tick marks. For example the bow and stern of the ship might be overhanging the outer horizontal marks when you're doing the aob. So what I do is count all the marks that are definitely over the ship first and then add to that any partial ones. So for instance I might count 7.5 marks. The same applies to the vertical scale for doing the range.

* As far as using this tool for working out range is concerned, I believe that it's quite accurate and that there are no issues with the Gui. The biggest difficulties will arise from rough seas and longer ranges.

* Working out aob often works out well too, however I think it is heavily dependant on first obtaining an accurate range. If the aob is obviously greater than 90 degrees (i.e. the ship is going away) you need to subtract your aob answer from 180 degrees. For instance, you get an answer of 70. Your aob is 110 degrees.

* Sometimes when you've counted your tick marks for the aob, the answer will be off the scale (further to the left of the 90 mark at the top). This is the only thing that I have trouble with now and at present have no answer for, other than that perhaps it comes from an inaccurate range input, a Gui problem or some other unknown reason. This will happen to me about 20% of the time.

* Red mark for the speed: The location for this at the 29 mark on the inner ring is in my opinion completely wrong (at least that's where it is on my version). I have come across an old thread where the guys working on the Gui figured it out and released a fix for it placing it around the 57 mark I think. From my testing that is still wrong. The best that I can figure is that the correct place for the red speed line is on the 25 mark on the inner ring. Visually, this is exactly where it used to exist on previous GUIs. But one very important thing: When using the 25 mark with this Gui you must MULTIPLY your speed reading by 2. I've done a lot of testing on this and can confirm that this is usually pretty accurate with targets moving from anywhere between 2 and 16 knots.

Additionally, if you find this speed mark to your liking (or if you find one you like better), I would suggest making a copy of and editing the AOBFOuterDisc.tga file with your own red line.

* As a personal preference on technique, I usually like to do the speed first. Just seems good to get it out of the way early. I will also grab a final range reading just before I fire.

* For me, this tool is used in more of a tactical sense in that I find that it's best suited to medium to short range, because due to the closer proximity you'll get more accurate data. However, at shorter ranges things tend to change more rapidly so you've got to work faster. You don't want to neglect too much time in using your range calculation for working out your aob, otherwise errors are likely to occur.

* Practicing in the Naval Academy torpedo training mission with G7a T1s will really help you get good using this tool.

Hey, I hope this helps. If anyone else can shed extra light on how this tool works with this Gui, or correct any errors on my part, I'd be really interested to hear, because I'm still trying to perfect my game play using this tool. Cheers.

NoExcuses · 02-08-18, 05:22 PM

Hello, stork100. Thanks for your reply. So I just got to try everything you mentioned, and as much as the range reading does work, I just can't get the AOB right. Everytime I do it, it's completely off, I always compare my readings with my Weapons Officer. Since I'm getting the range right for sure, I think the problem lays with the damn horizontal tick marks. I'm doing everything exactly the same way it is shown in bstanko6's tutorial. Could you tell me, are you using the same method? Because if yes, then I don't really know what the problem is..
PS. It looks like I always count too many tick marks, cuz if I move the wheel to match my WO's AOB, it always looks like I have too much of tick marks counted. I tried to divide the number by 2 but that's not the reason, since I'm like 2/3 marks too much

stork100 · 02-08-18, 07:59 PM

I do it in a very similar method for sure. What I do is start at the left side of the ship and count all the way to the right. And just to clarify, I do also count the vertical crosshair as a mark, and then I'll add in any partial tick marks on the ends. Just as a quick test you can do to compare with what I'm doing, go into the naval academy torpedo exercise. As soon as it starts, raise your attack periscope, zoom x6, scan about 40 degrees right and lock on to the small tanker. Without doing anything else, I'm counting 9 horizontal tick marks. If you get a different number, perhaps you've got a different version to mine.

Quickly find the tanker in the rec. manual. When it's bearing 046 I'm getting a range of 1800m. At 048 I'm counting 10 horizontal tick marks including partials, which gives me an AOB of 56 degrees to starboard, and I set and lock that into the TDC. At 083 degrees my AOB dial on the TDC hits 90 degrees, and the ship looks good visually.

At least that's how I'm doing it. Like I said, it doesn't always work out and about 20% of the time I'll have too many marks counted for the AOB scale on the wheel, but I can usually get good consistency in the naval academy.

As an observation which I just worked out, the units for the tick marks on the wheel (movable inner) are exactly half that which can be seen on other GUIs. As in where the number 4 appears on a different version, with this you get 2. Yes, there's definitely more to figure out on this and I'm afraid that's about all I can say for the present. I'll keep working on it though as it does have my interest. If I learn anything new I'll be sure to post it up here.

Pisces · 02-12-18, 04:57 PM

This is the "Range and Aob finder" that you use?

To find the correct placement of the speed scratch mark (I figured that one out for the old OLC mod) allign a length (on the outer wheel) of 100 meters to 100
seconds (on the outside scale of the middle wheel). Then the speed scratch should be just below the 2 (knots) mark on the speed scale (inside scale of the middle wheel) 100 meter per 100 seconds is 1 m/s. 1 m/s = 3600/1852 knots= 1.94 knots-ish.

Pisces · 02-12-18, 05:26 PM

I don't know if this was fixed in later versions of the mod. But I approve the following message.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=327

stork100 · 02-12-18, 06:22 PM

Many thanks to you Pisces. It works. All very correct.

Cheers.

02-06-18, 06:56 PM	#1
NoExcuses Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 9 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	The wheel of death and dispair Hello all! I'm here to ask you guys if anyone has a link to a tutorial, or a knowledge and wants to share it with me and other Kaleuns about the Attack Disc. I'm using Ahnanerbe Wide Gui, not the OLC's one. I've seen people using the OLC's disc but they work differently from what I saw.. Thanks in advance

02-07-18, 10:35 PM	#5
stork100 Weps Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 352 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	I'll just offer my take on it for what it's worth. First off, bstanko6's tutorial on the Range Angle on Bow Finder (RAOBF) really is quite comprehensive in explanation of how it works, but as you've noticed, the Ahnenerbe WideGui version does render slightly differently leading to some confusion. I'm interested that you've raised this thread because I've been working through this subject quite a lot lately and still have some questions myself. Unfortunately, as far as I can search, the discrepancies that exist with this particular version haven't been well documented, at least not correctly in my opinion. Since bstanko6's tutorial explains everything on how it works, I'll just offer a few of my own observations and some practical advice on how I'm using it in this Gui at the moment. So the first thing, just some basics to always keep in mind: 1. Zoom: Use x6 when measuring range and aob for simplicity when entering your data (no need to convert). Zoom doesn't matter for speed. 2. Speed: Must be at 0 knots to get an accurate reading in most instances. 3. Remember that the units for range on the wheel are in hectometres (x100), the same as the range dial on the TDC. Observations/Advice: -------------------- * As far as I know at this time, the tick marks for range and aob work correctly, so you just simply count how many. No need to multiply or divide. So, where it says 10 on the scope is actually 5 out from the center. However, be sure to count any partial tick marks. For example the bow and stern of the ship might be overhanging the outer horizontal marks when you're doing the aob. So what I do is count all the marks that are definitely over the ship first and then add to that any partial ones. So for instance I might count 7.5 marks. The same applies to the vertical scale for doing the range. * As far as using this tool for working out range is concerned, I believe that it's quite accurate and that there are no issues with the Gui. The biggest difficulties will arise from rough seas and longer ranges. * Working out aob often works out well too, however I think it is heavily dependant on first obtaining an accurate range. If the aob is obviously greater than 90 degrees (i.e. the ship is going away) you need to subtract your aob answer from 180 degrees. For instance, you get an answer of 70. Your aob is 110 degrees. * Sometimes when you've counted your tick marks for the aob, the answer will be off the scale (further to the left of the 90 mark at the top). This is the only thing that I have trouble with now and at present have no answer for, other than that perhaps it comes from an inaccurate range input, a Gui problem or some other unknown reason. This will happen to me about 20% of the time. * Red mark for the speed: The location for this at the 29 mark on the inner ring is in my opinion completely wrong (at least that's where it is on my version). I have come across an old thread where the guys working on the Gui figured it out and released a fix for it placing it around the 57 mark I think. From my testing that is still wrong. The best that I can figure is that the correct place for the red speed line is on the 25 mark on the inner ring. Visually, this is exactly where it used to exist on previous GUIs. But one very important thing: When using the 25 mark with this Gui you must MULTIPLY your speed reading by 2. I've done a lot of testing on this and can confirm that this is usually pretty accurate with targets moving from anywhere between 2 and 16 knots. Additionally, if you find this speed mark to your liking (or if you find one you like better), I would suggest making a copy of and editing the AOBFOuterDisc.tga file with your own red line. * As a personal preference on technique, I usually like to do the speed first. Just seems good to get it out of the way early. I will also grab a final range reading just before I fire. * For me, this tool is used in more of a tactical sense in that I find that it's best suited to medium to short range, because due to the closer proximity you'll get more accurate data. However, at shorter ranges things tend to change more rapidly so you've got to work faster. You don't want to neglect too much time in using your range calculation for working out your aob, otherwise errors are likely to occur. * Practicing in the Naval Academy torpedo training mission with G7a T1s will really help you get good using this tool. Hey, I hope this helps. If anyone else can shed extra light on how this tool works with this Gui, or correct any errors on my part, I'd be really interested to hear, because I'm still trying to perfect my game play using this tool. Cheers. Last edited by stork100; 02-08-18 at 03:26 AM.

02-06-18, 07:18 PM	#2
stork100 Weps Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 352 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Hi. Just to confirm, I assume you're talking about the one that drops down around the periscope?

02-07-18, 05:41 PM	#3
NoExcuses Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 9 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Hi! Yeah, I'm talking about the one that drops around the periscope, the one from Ahnanerbe 1920x1080 Wide Gui, to be exact. I'm really having problems figuring out how to use it..

02-07-18, 06:15 PM	#4
NoExcuses Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 9 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Allrights guys, I think I have it sorted! Thanks, Bstanko6, I found your attack disc tutorial. I see you're not using the Ahnanerbe One, but the main principal is the same I'd say. The only thing that's different on my wheel is I have to divide some numbers by 2, then it's pretty much the same as the one you're using. The weird thing is that on the periscope tick marks it looks like it should be counted as times 2, but on the wheel you need to put 2x times lower numbers, hm. Anyway Thanks, I think I can finally use it properly!

02-08-18, 05:22 PM	#6
NoExcuses Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 9 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Hello, stork100. Thanks for your reply. So I just got to try everything you mentioned, and as much as the range reading does work, I just can't get the AOB right. Everytime I do it, it's completely off, I always compare my readings with my Weapons Officer. Since I'm getting the range right for sure, I think the problem lays with the damn horizontal tick marks. I'm doing everything exactly the same way it is shown in bstanko6's tutorial. Could you tell me, are you using the same method? Because if yes, then I don't really know what the problem is.. PS. It looks like I always count too many tick marks, cuz if I move the wheel to match my WO's AOB, it always looks like I have too much of tick marks counted. I tried to divide the number by 2 but that's not the reason, since I'm like 2/3 marks too much

02-08-18, 07:59 PM	#7
stork100 Weps Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 352 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	I do it in a very similar method for sure. What I do is start at the left side of the ship and count all the way to the right. And just to clarify, I do also count the vertical crosshair as a mark, and then I'll add in any partial tick marks on the ends. Just as a quick test you can do to compare with what I'm doing, go into the naval academy torpedo exercise. As soon as it starts, raise your attack periscope, zoom x6, scan about 40 degrees right and lock on to the small tanker. Without doing anything else, I'm counting 9 horizontal tick marks. If you get a different number, perhaps you've got a different version to mine. Quickly find the tanker in the rec. manual. When it's bearing 046 I'm getting a range of 1800m. At 048 I'm counting 10 horizontal tick marks including partials, which gives me an AOB of 56 degrees to starboard, and I set and lock that into the TDC. At 083 degrees my AOB dial on the TDC hits 90 degrees, and the ship looks good visually. At least that's how I'm doing it. Like I said, it doesn't always work out and about 20% of the time I'll have too many marks counted for the AOB scale on the wheel, but I can usually get good consistency in the naval academy. As an observation which I just worked out, the units for the tick marks on the wheel (movable inner) are exactly half that which can be seen on other GUIs. As in where the number 4 appears on a different version, with this you get 2. Yes, there's definitely more to figure out on this and I'm afraid that's about all I can say for the present. I'll keep working on it though as it does have my interest. If I learn anything new I'll be sure to post it up here.

02-12-18, 04:57 PM	#8
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	This is the "Range and Aob finder" that you use? To find the correct placement of the speed scratch mark (I figured that one out for the old OLC mod) allign a length (on the outer wheel) of 100 meters to 100 seconds (on the outside scale of the middle wheel). Then the speed scratch should be just below the 2 (knots) mark on the speed scale (inside scale of the middle wheel) 100 meter per 100 seconds is 1 m/s. 1 m/s = 3600/1852 knots= 1.94 knots-ish.

02-12-18, 05:26 PM	#9
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,892 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	I don't know if this was fixed in later versions of the mod. But I approve the following message. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=327

02-12-18, 06:22 PM	#10
stork100 Weps Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 352 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Many thanks to you Pisces. It works. All very correct. Cheers.