Expelled student armed with assault rifle slaughters 17 at Florida high school

[Sean C]

Originally Posted by Skybird

...There is an explanation in history why the authors said that. Civil War. Freeing of Slaves. Firearms in black hands. Whites not wanting that. Dissolving of KKK falling together with founding the NRA. Civil Rights Movement and Anti Vietnam Protest. The fact that school shootings almost always are committed by whites, not blacks.

Um, wat? Are you serious? What on earth has any of this got to do with some lunatic shooting up a school now? Do you really think that's what was going through his mind at the time? Give me a break.

Sure, guns are readily available here, and they're often used to commit crimes. But if you think crimes like this are committed because of the Civil War and the KKK ... well, I'm sorry, but you sound crazy. There are plenty of other, much more plausible reasons for the rise in frequency of this type of crime. We don't need to reach that far.

I suppose next we'll discuss how this was all planned by the Illuminati.

Originally Posted by Skybird

The founding of the NRA in 1871 is closely linked to the end of the Civil War in 1865. For the first time, blacks also got access to weapons - and promptly there were first efforts to restrict this again. It was about "taking away the ability of the blacks to defend themselves," later NRA President David Keene said in retrospect. It was not by chance that the NRA formed at the same time as America's first Ku Klux Klan movement was under pressure to re-invent itself as "rifle groups."

Well, if you take a moment to look at U.S. crime statistics, you'll see that that plan failed miserably. But It's easy to see how what happened in Florida will help turn things around for the NRA and KKK. :|

I mean, really, who the hell takes stuff like this seriously? SMH.

[Dowly]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start allowing institutions like the CDC to reserach gun violence.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Let's see.
They are Sworn to serve and protect. Failed on both those points no matter the reasoning.

I'm pretty sure you'd not need to flip a coin on which direction to shoot!
Hear and follow the gun shots. If the perp at the source is not dressed like you? KILL the SOB!! They are supposedly trained LEO's after all.

Perhaps they wanted someone kneeling on a floor begging not to be shot before they wanted to shoot him dead. That has happened in the U.S.A.
Even that LEO was not convicted of a crime so what did they have to fear?
Oh! I might get hurt!!!

Have you even understood what I asked for?

[Platapus]

Easy way to the the NRA to accept gun control legislation.

All you gotta do is put in a clause requiring all gun owners to become NRA members and require all gun owners to take an NRA course.

Once the NRA realizes how much money they can make , I think we will be surprised at how quickly the NRA can change its agenda.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Platapus

All you gotta do is put in a clause requiring all gun owners to become NRA members and require all gun owners to take an NRA course.

ACTUALLY, ALL GUN OWNERS SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO TAKE A SEMESTER COURSE AT A LOCAL POLICE ACADEMY IN ARREST AND FIREARMS OR WHAT USED TO BE THE 'MODULE 'A' P.O.S.T CERTIFICATE; ESSENTIALLY A CIVILIAN MINDED COURSE WHICH HAS KEPT ME EMPLOYED SINCE 1994, IN FEDERAL HOUSING PROJECTS AND FEDERAL BUILDINGS, AND WAS THE CIVILIAN REQUIREMENT FOR A CITIZEN'S CONCEALED PERMIT AS WELL. THUS THE 'WELL ORDERED MILITIA' FACTOR OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT WOULD BE CONSIDERBLY IMPROVED. AS A MEMBER OF A 'WELL ORDERED' AND TRAINED MILITIA, CONTROL WOULD BE BETTER OVER THE NUT-CASES....IMHO

[mapuc]

Correct me if I'm wrong

I get the feeling, by reading between the lines, It's all NRA's fault.

Is it NRA's fault all the way ?

Markus

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Correct me if I'm wrong

I get the feeling, by reading between the lines, It's all NRA's fault.

Is it NRA's fault all the way ?

Markus

This really is a case of the " blame game " markus. Typical of moronic politicians, they would rather point fingers than work together constructively to address a serious issue. Other Subsim members in the U.S like many others in the country, have weapons and have taken responsibility for how their weapons are secured and used. Our members like many others have training and make sure they are proficient in the use of weapons.

The political powers that be want to make people like that feel responsible somehow and are shamefully using this platform as an agenda for once again taking aim at responsible gun owners, no pun intended, and their rights.

The NRA didn't make this loser / lunatic go on a shooting spree in a school the same as gun manufacturers are hardly responsible for how weapons are used once they leave a retail outlet providing all federal and state statutes have been strictly followed. As has been reported, law enforcement dropped the ball badly on this one and kids lost their lives for no reason as a result. I hope the law enforcement agencies who shirked their responsibility can live with themselves because the parents of the kids that were killed got a life sentence -of grief.

[Onkel Neal]

Over my lifetime, when there is a mass shooting or major gun crime like an assassination, the call for more "background checks" is raised. There have been more than a few laws as a result, but apparently they were a bad idea, they sure don't seem to be working.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 mandated that individual and corporate firearms dealers have a Federal Firearms License. It was very weak and I doubt it had much effect on keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals and lunatics.

In 1998 the National Instant Criminal Background Check System went into effect, and was intended to stop firearm sales a "prohibited person", which is someone who:

• Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
• Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
• Is a fugitive from justice;
• Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
• Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;
• Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States;
• Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
• Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship;
• Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner;
• Has been convicted in any court of a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence"

In the last few years these mass shootings have often been a result of the failure of government (state, local, federal, armed forces) to administer the background checks properly. So, sure, we could pass more laws and improve background checks, but how much help will this be if they are not managed faithfully? I'm open to improvements in this system, but I don't think it will be a magical solution.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

In the last few years these mass shootings have often been a result of the failure of government (state, local, federal, armed forces) to administer the background checks properly. So, sure, we could pass more laws and improve background checks, but how much help will this be if they are not managed faithfully? I'm open to improvements in this system, but I don't think it will be a magical solution.

As you said, I don't think more rules or regs are going to help or be particularly effective. A far better approach would be to simply enforce the laws we have on the books. Many gun dealers have said the same thing. If the govt. can't enforce the regs it has in place, what chance does it have with new laws ?

We must have a great sense of humor here in the U.S as we elect so many jokes to elected office. On the other hand, jokes are funny and this situation and our elected officials are anything but funny.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

As you said, I don't think more rules or regs are going to help or be particularly effective. A far better approach would be to simply enforce the laws we have on the books. Many gun dealers have said the same thing. If the govt. can't enforce the regs it has in place, what chance does it have with new laws ?

We must have a great sense of humor here in the U.S as we elect so many jokes to elected office. On the other hand, jokes are funny and this situation and our elected officials are anything but funny.

Just darken your black sense of humour just a little bit more, and you can laugh yourself to death. Opportunities there are aplenty.

I agree, more laws will do nothing, and like I said before, I think it is a social, cultural, mass-psychological, mentality issue. If any changes short of just banning firearms shall have rewards, they must begin in reeducating a whole history, tradition, self-definition and culture. Adn that will cost time, probably generations, and holds its own risks, as we can see in Europe, where the home populations are increaisngly unable to consider force as a valid option to defend themselves. And thats makes them helpless against those who disagree on that taboo.

A wide mass-movement, much bigger than the students protesting now and the companies ending their cooperaiton with the NRA, however could maybe have an effect. Juzst that I find it difficult to prject what this effect will be like - if said protests would turn into a real big and long-lasting, enduring mass movement, big enough to bring down a government and threatening politician's careers by the dozens.

Or we will see that the pain and death toll simply is not high enough for America to change itself. Then people have to suffer what they must, and thats it. Stale routine in doing right that there is enough, bitter observers might have noticed by now. And like sex, funerals and stale speeches push TV quotas upwards. When "leaders" preach, many freeeze and stand at attention. Bravo. Nothing beats drill and routine.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just darken your black sense of humour just a little bit more, and you can laugh yourself to death. Opportunities there are aplenty.

I agree, more laws will do nothing, and like I said before, I think it is a social, cultural, mass-psychological, mentality issue. If any changes short of just banning firearms shall have rewards, they must begin in reeducating a whole history, tradition, self-definition and culture. Adn that will cost time, probably generations, and holds its own risks, as we can see in Europe, where the home populations are increaisngly unable to consider force as a valid option to defend themselves. And thats makes them helpless against those who disagree on that taboo.

Sky, you are so way off as to defy description. Using our members as an example, we are all armed and hardly a threat to anyone, unless someone attempts to invade our homes or hurts someone we care about, then all bets are off. Our members represent a cross section of society as a whole. Most people like our subsim members employ the science of physics and ballistics with regards to grain weights and other factors to increase their accuracy.

You apparently have this image that we are all lunatics. We are the same people who work 40 hours a week, attend church regularly not to mention soccer, football, baseball practices and other activities for our kids after working 8-12 hours on a given day. We do that because our kids are everything to us as they are to other parents in other countries. We look out for our neighbors kids too and our neighborhood. They are the same people who take time off to help people they don't even know, thousands of miles away, to recover from natural disasters like hurricans and tornado's.

These are the same people who take their freedoms seriously and wouldn't think twice about taking up arms to protect that.

In my mind, people who do that aren't lunatics, they are everyday hero's and if need be, patriots. That's what our society is all about.

By the way, our history was written in the blood of others who defined the term patriots who gave everything, including their sons to build a nation. They are as revered today as they were then as are their words, actions, honor and integrity that they held most sacred.

[mapuc]

Nobody shall point fingers at anyone whether it's an American, a German or a third person

99.999999+ percentage of the Americans who have guns is ordinary people working and so on.

They are not a threat to other people.

I can't understand why these people should have removed their right to own (a) weapon(s)

I think Platapus signatur(if that is the correct word) can be used here

"abusus non tollit usum " The rest you know.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Well as long as we are just talking like we do on everything else ...

I think the next coming elections (is that this year in November I think) will prove to be someone's downfall, but the winner will promise the people against guns everything they want and if he or she wins they will have to deliver.

However they won't be able to deliver even if the politicians that the gun control people vote in due to the NRA being right or wrong, is stronger than all get out.

All this talk and nothing will get done and by this time next year nothing will have been done and the people in office will simply throw up their hands and say, "Our hands are tied" they won't let us change anything.

The real problem is copy cats shooting up the next school ... who are you going to blame? Mental health, the gun laws, back ground checks, sheriff's standing outside the classroom door with gun drawn, the politicians, the innocent students that are still being buried?

Nothing is going to get done ... that will stop the next shooter. You can't solve mental illness in a permissive society that thrives on gun violence in the movies and in video games. Three hundred and thirty (330) million people are not going to give up their rights to bear arms

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Sky, you are so way off as to defy description. Using our members as an example, we are all armed and hardly a threat to anyone, unless someone attempts to invade our homes or hurts someone we care about, then all bets are off. Our members represent a cross section of society as a whole. Most people like our subsim members employ the science of physics and ballistics with regards to grain weights and other factors to increase their accuracy.

You apparently have this image that we are all lunatics. We are the same people who work 40 hours a week, attend church regularly not to mention soccer, football, baseball practices and other activities for our kids after working 8-12 hours on a given day. We do that because our kids are everything to us as they are to other parents in other countries. We look out for our neighbors kids too and our neighborhood. They are the same people who take time off to help people they don't even know, thousands of miles away, to recover from natural disasters like hurricans and tornado's.

These are the same people who take their freedoms seriously and wouldn't think twice about taking up arms to protect that.

In my mind, people who do that aren't lunatics, they are everyday hero's and if need be, patriots. That's what our society is all about.

By the way, our history was written in the blood of others who defined the term patriots who gave everything, including their sons to build a nation. They are as revered today as they were then as are their words, actions, honor and integrity that they held most sacred.

Honestly said, I do not feel as if that reply is meant for me.

BTW, my father held a pistol license until last year, he did shooting as a sports, small callibre pistol. I probably would own a firearm myself if in Germany you would not have so intense regulations and quite voluminous theory tests and obligations to constantly report and document organised competition participation which all is meant to discourage people from trying to gain licenses.

Try to correctly understand what I actually said and mean. I admit that I think Michael Moore did a good job in illustrating what I meant with "cultural thing" and "mentality" when he did Bowling for Columbine. Im not a fan of him in general, but that film was damn good. He really hit the right nerve there.

By German standards, I am an extremist and probably a right-winged danger to society due to my "lenient" ideas on private gun ownership. For many Americans, I am an extremist for not being lenient enough. Well, so be it.

[Buddahaid]

Really I suppose because I grew up in the US decades ago, I look at firearm ownership in a much more loose manner. It was never an OMG moment to have them and it never raised any eyebrows, it was normal.