SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Killerfish Games > Atlantic Fleet / Pacific Fleet
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-13-2014, 09:02 AM   #31
Rayydar
Watch
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wiesbaden.de
Posts: 26
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacific Fleet View Post
The plan is to announce the sequel some time in the next several weeks along with some screenshots and information about what's in it. No doubt it will generate some more detailed discussions.
Best news so far! Be sure to be flooded with input!

BTW: My natural laziness always makes me wonder:
Why isn't the gun elevation automatically set to the value determined by radar? Thus the sliders would only be needed if adjustments are to be made ('determined by Rayydar' ).

Last edited by Rayydar; 04-13-2014 at 09:33 AM.
Rayydar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 11:12 AM   #32
Killerfish Games
Cold Waters Developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayydar View Post
Why isn't the gun elevation automatically set to the value determined by radar? Thus the sliders would only be needed if adjustments are to be made ('determined by Rayydar' ).
Good question, I guess we didn't think of that...
Perhaps we didn't consider it due to the inherent error in RADAR readings along with wind modifiers. We're not sure that players always want the elevation given by RADAR, but would like to know how close their current setting is compared to the RADAR reading and shot history markers.
__________________
Visit Killerfish Games for more info and ongoing discussion.
Killerfish Games is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2014, 12:19 PM   #33
Rayydar
Watch
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wiesbaden.de
Posts: 26
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Well, my experience with play mode 'normal' and shell drift is:

a) RADAR is much more reliable than you think. At most, at strong wind adjustments by +- 0.1 or 0.2 (not more) are required. My hit ratio with RADAR is > 95%. Thus it would be helpful if the coarse tuning could be skipped and only fine tuning is needed - if at all.

b) The shot history markers are most useful for shore bombardment with both static targets and stopped ships. With moving targets and gun platforms ... well ...
But meanwhile, my hit ratio without RADAR is not too bad after all.
Rayydar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 10:18 AM   #34
Rayydar
Watch
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wiesbaden.de
Posts: 26
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Subs and AI gunnery, reloaded

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayydar View Post
5. Subs:
...
In many scenarios, however, subs are deployed too far away from the enemy; thus they hardly or never have a chance to come within torpedo range. Their limited speed is realistic; their vulnerability when surfaced as well. But pleeease deploy them a little nearer to the foe.
While AI gunners apparently are so poorly trained that their shells might already go astray within the barrel (which does not exclude lucky direct hits from time to time), there is one exception:
a surfaced sub. It will be hit (and mostly sunk) by the first salvo with a 50+% chance. Amazing - but not fair. For a sub does have to surface in order to get within torpedo range; even at 20 knots this is not easy.

In mission #17, my Gato still has only one Battle Star while my later purchased Cleveland already has five. Guess why! OK, since my Casablanca was commissioned, I have been using the Gato in night action only. Nevertheless, something should be done about the subs' initial positions.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manual
Submarine requires 20x experience of surface vessels to gain a rank.
Why???

Last edited by Rayydar; 04-16-2014 at 10:28 AM.
Rayydar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 03:53 PM   #35
Julhelm
Cold Waters Dev
 
Julhelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Icy North
Posts: 638
Downloads: 169
Uploads: 0
Default

With the sub, you can just engage and disengage repeatedly until you're in a sufficiently advantageous position. I played through the entire campaign using nothing but the Gato and generally sinking most enemy ships. If you remain stationary enemies can get quite close without shooting at you and even 1-2 torpedoes is usually sufficient to cripple even a Takao or Kongo.

The main problem with the sub is that just like in real life, it is just too slow to keep up with surface warships, and this is even worse when submerged. So the only way to win with the sub is getting into an ambush position and capitalize on the fact that with TDC installed, it is very possible to score repeated hits at even the extreme limits of the torpedoes range.
Julhelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 05:40 PM   #36
Rayydar
Watch
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wiesbaden.de
Posts: 26
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks, Julhelm.
I never tried a sub solo campaign but it seems to be worth it. Probably this is my mistake: My surface vessels are so good that the enemy never had a chance to approach the Gato.

Edit: Wait a minute ... how do you win shore bombardment missions with just one 4" 'rifle', esp. those with 10" armored bunkers?

Last edited by Rayydar; 04-16-2014 at 07:14 PM.
Rayydar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 08:36 PM   #37
Killerfish Games
Cold Waters Developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayydar View Post
Edit: Wait a minute ... how do you win shore bombardment missions with just one 4" 'rifle', esp. those with 10" armored bunkers?
Manual page 8:
"If no other ships have been purchased, a submarine may call in heavy air strikes against land targets."

This can make playing up to level 10, 20 or 25 with just a sub quite worthwhile to clear out those early islands.
__________________
Visit Killerfish Games for more info and ongoing discussion.
Killerfish Games is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 09:52 AM   #38
Rayydar
Watch
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wiesbaden.de
Posts: 26
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Aaah ... I see! There seems to be s.th. like this in the code:

Code:
if (GatoOnly) {
   rc = giveItHugeBonuses(); /* :-p */
}
While in the normal campaign with a mixed task force one needs 4 torpedos + some shells to sink an oiler (), now, in the Gato-only run-through, I usually sink a Takao with just 2 torpedos. Also are there perfectly preset flight paths to island bunkers for bombers. And the tiny 4" gun inflicts considerable damage (well, using HE shells and RADAR for the first time).
Thus in mission #17, my Gato has earned 5 Battle Stars. Not a patch on its poor performance within mixed TFs!

Despite some 'endless' move-done-next sequences - yes, it's fun!
However, I had never tried this without Julhelm's tips. Ordinary players may jump to wrong conclusions due to the weakness of the Gato in normal campaigns. Perhaps the bonus thing should be mentioned in the manual?

Last edited by Rayydar; 04-17-2014 at 11:17 AM.
Rayydar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 11:09 AM   #39
Ebongreen
Nub
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Interface tweak: Gunnery

First, my thanks to the PF developers for creating such a fun game. I've been a wargamer since I was a boy, staring with Avalon Hill games - computing has made being a gamer so much easier and quality entertainment so much more portable! I read good things about PF at Pocket Tactics, and am very happy I gave it a try.

But if there's one thing about PF that drives me nuts, it's the gunnery sliders. Both slew and elevation are absolute controls (slew is 360º along the horizontal, elevation 0-45º vertical). For helm control, an absolute slider is fine, because precision doesn't matter that much, and you're limited in latitude to 60º total on the slider; the degree of control required is easily achieved.

But it can take 10-15 seconds to tweak out the last tenth of elevation to hit a target because the slider keeps moving as I lift my finger! It's maddening and frustrating, significantly distracting from the fun of "Main guns - FIRE!" Slew control is also difficult; the slider area that works for 60º on helm fails to provide the precision for 360º of gunnery slew.

I have a couple possible suggestions to solve the problem. One is to use dial controls: for elevation you could have three indexed wheels for tens, ones, and tenths, for example. Finger velocity could control the speed of dial spin.

An alternative, and perhaps better, option would be to narrow the displayed range on each slider and make them relative: show only 5-10º of elevation at any time and let the player's scroll velocity and direction determine what segment of elevation will be shown. Fix the elevation "marker" and float the elevation meter, like on some styles of spring-operated kitchen or postage scales. This latter scheme would translate to slew easily: show only a segment of the 360º slew range, and allow the player to scroll left or right to position the slew range necessary. For weapons like torpedoes and depth charges, you could even restrict the slew to the weapon's actual firing constraints.

I hope this is the kind of feedback that you as a developer appreciate. Thanks again for the fun; I look forward to more hours of enjoyment in the future.
Ebongreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 11:12 AM   #40
Killerfish Games
Cold Waters Developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

That code made me laugh.

The free heavy airstrikes against islands were included simply to allow a player going for the "Unrestricted Sub Warfare" achievement to get past them. Torpedo and gun performance remain unchanged.

Aside from the free airstrikes against islands there's no other bonuses to mention in the manual. Except perhaps a slightly closer starting distance when operating solo.

The ability to engage/disengage at will to set up your ambush combined with TDC, Improived Detonators and 5 star Rank (to reduce torpedo drift by another 10%) really stack up as Julhelm mentions. It makes the humble Gato very worthwhile to play solo and we think it emulates submarine warfare very well.
__________________
Visit Killerfish Games for more info and ongoing discussion.
Killerfish Games is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 11:18 AM   #41
Killerfish Games
Cold Waters Developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebongreen View Post
I hope this is the kind of feedback that you as a developer appreciate.
It sure is! First thing to check: are you using the Fine Tune button in the very bottom left corner?
"Fine tune button (bottom left corner) can be used set the range of elevation and direction sliders to 5 and 10 degrees respectively for much more sensitive control."
__________________
Visit Killerfish Games for more info and ongoing discussion.
Killerfish Games is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 11:31 AM   #42
Rayydar
Watch
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wiesbaden.de
Posts: 26
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

@Ebongreen:
I think your suggestion is already implemented. There is a toggle at the bottom left corner switching between coarse and fine-tune mode. The latter lets you target at each single pixel ... well, not really, but certainly exactly enough.

@The Admiral:
The code, apart from having been syntactically wrong , reflects my experience, not from one battle but from dozens (hundreds with mixed TFs). Anyway, the main thing is it is fun.
Rayydar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 11:39 AM   #43
Ebongreen
Nub
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I had never used the fine-tune button before; it's very helpful.

I'd still like to see the interface make the fine-tune button unnecessary: it's not obvious to new players (even ones like me who read the manual can miss it). Thanks for your quick response!
Ebongreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 01:47 PM   #44
Aktungbby
Gefallen Engel U-666
 
Aktungbby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: where I'm at presently
Posts: 13,825
Downloads: 18
Uploads: 0


Default welcome aboard!

Ebongreen! on your first two posts!I still have my Avalon Hill Gettysburg and Midway games!
__________________
"Only two things are infinite: The Universe and human stupidity; And I'm not too sure about the Universe..." Philip K. Dick
Aktungbby is online   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 01:48 PM   #45
Jimbuna
Chief of the Boat
 
Jimbuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 250 metres below the surface
Posts: 128,668
Downloads: 49
Uploads: 11


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebongreen View Post
I had never used the fine-tune button before; it's very helpful.

I'd still like to see the interface make the fine-tune button unnecessary: it's not obvious to new players (even ones like me who read the manual can miss it). Thanks for your quick response!
Welcome to SubSim
__________________
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
Oh my God, not again!!


GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)
Jimbuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2019 Subsim