Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Victor Schutze]

Originally Posted by jaxa

Did you try to lower time scale max to 256x, especially near coast?

I always go to a maximum of 64x on the surface to avoid breaking plane detection pattern.

[Victor Schutze]

Originally Posted by Sag75

I was able to have some aircraft attack in GWX3. They are pretty rare when you send the contact report. Normally to be within 700-800km radius from Brest is a good range to probably have some help. But there are so many factors affecting this as visibilty, year, aircraft availability, minimum of three ships spotted, distance from the closer base.

True but the minimum of three ships spotted: I remember engaging 1 merchant south of Sweden in sh3 vanilla and reported the contact through radio. A Stuka came when I hit the "Los" button and sunk the target. I never experienced it again playing GWX3. I still have to test this feature again ASAP.

[Obltn Strand]

Originally Posted by h.sie

Question: How were the diving-tanks emptied?
- By pump (->battery supply) or
- by pressure air (->compressed air supply)
- or both of them

That's tough one.

Usually diving tanks were emptied with pressure air to force water out. Diesel exhaust could be used too but that requires battery power to drive the submarine to the surface.

As I understand (and please correct if I'm wrong) there are two kinds diving tanks. Main diving tanks that are open to sea and trimming tanks that are closed tanks. Pumping something out from open tank is useless.

Submarine when submerged are trimmed to have slight negative buoyancy. If enough water can be pumped out from trimming tanks and the pump can withstand the stress created by negative pressure unless replacing air is provided. I should point out that pumping by hand against pressure of 15 to 20 atmospheres is very labour intensive and we are talking about hundreds of liters here.

Also aside from pressure air used to blow diving tanks, submarine carries two other kinds of pressure air. One to fire torpedoes and other to start diesels. Let's forget pressure air to start diesels. In dire situation submarine crew could redirect torpedo pressure air to tanks. Same compressor creates it anyway.

In mythbusters terms I'd say it is plausible to surface without battery power and pressure air.

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by Victor Schutze

I did not see any aircraft attack since moving from vanilla SH3 to GWX3 years ago.
I'll make extensive tests on this.

In the GWX the mere presence of U-boat (not necessarily on the surface) provokes an attack Axis aircraft, provided that sufficiently close to the air base's ally. Sending a contact causes the attack is more likely or more intense. See the file airstrike.cfg.
If you want to see a lot of air strikes, choose to travel in place of allied landing near to a german air bases: Sicily, Anzio in 1943, and Normandy in 1944. If you have bad luck, do not wait too long for anything to sink your targets drown planes.

[Victor Schutze]

Originally Posted by Olamagato

In the GWX the mere presence of U-boat (not necessarily on the surface) provokes an attack Axis aircraft, provided that sufficiently close to the air base's ally. Sending a contact causes the attack is more likely or more intense. See the file airstrike.cfg.
If you want to see a lot of air strikes, choose to travel in place of allied landing near to a german air bases: Sicily, Anzio in 1943, and Normandy in 1944. If you have bad luck, do not wait too long for anything to sink your targets drown planes.

Thank you Olamagato! I'll try this.

I've been playing GWX for years now, I've never been able to survive the war beyond 1942.

I must survive to see Anzio in 1943, and Normandy in 1944.

[h.sie]

@Olamagato, Victor_Schutze:

Were you able to reproduce the weird behaviour your complained using the DEBUG version?

[Sag75]

Originally Posted by h.sie

In some tests, I saw the following behaviour: Situation:

- submerged
- battery = empty
- compressed air = empty

If you now order to surface the quick-diving tank is emptied and the Uboat surfaces. Is this correct behaviour??

Question: How were the diving-tanks emptied?
- By pump (->battery supply) or
- by pressure air (->compressed air supply)
- or both of them

I tested this. I emptied the batteries (needle on zero, no speed at all at ahead flank) and the tank by continuosly pressing key "E" and reordering the depth before surfacing.
At these conditions, at all engines stopped, I was still able to surface in 15' from 100meters pressing "E" key, or "S"! Also I was still able to change the depth acting on the needle of the depthmeter.
However even if the crew said to me we were out of compressed air, and I pressed E for long time to exhaust all air, I noticed the pressure air-meter needle never went on zero, but it stopped at 1 notch over zero.
I guessed I got the same behaviour of the batteries and amperometer before your fix!
I hope this help!

[Olamagato]

@h.sie
1. For now, no. This situation has not occurred often, but very rarely. But there was when I was doing patrols during the campaign.

2. Small technical question for debug version: Does the text "dud" is encoded or displayed by any of the items xx_menu.txt?

3.

In case it is not generally known: It is important to set the torpedo depth not deeper than the keel of the target ship

It's like a mistake. Should not torpedo hit the keel because then hits at very high angle and the chance for reflection from the hull is greater than 90%. Torpedo should go below the keel in a minimum distance from the keel. Preferably about 50 cm. But 1 m below the actual draft is completely effective. Only one torpedo in good place can sink a big carrier or battleship. At 2 meters explosion distance can only damage the target. At three meters is usually ineffective. Unfortunately, the actual draft a little different from that in the settings depending on the load and weather conditions. So sometimes you have to guess. During the storm the best at all to shoot only in the side of the ship because its draft can vary by up to 3 meters.
Greetings.

[LGN1]

Originally Posted by h.sie

In some tests, I saw the following behaviour: Situation:

- submerged
- battery = empty
- compressed air = empty

If you now order to surface the quick-diving tank is emptied and the Uboat surfaces. Is this correct behaviour??

Question: How were the diving-tanks emptied?
- By pump (->battery supply) or
- by pressure air (->compressed air supply)
- or both of them

IIRC, all tanks could be emptied with compressed air. At least the Regelzellen, Regelbunker, Trimmzellen, and Tauchzelle 3 could be emptied via the pumps. Thus, the u-boat could surface both with enough battery power and with enough compressed air (However, I don't know whether surfacing without electric power could be done in a controlled manner). If you are interested in further details, the original handbook of the VIIC contains much information about this.

The quick diving tank was usually emptied immediately after the boat submerged, i.e., it should be always empty when submerged for a longer time. Its purpose was just to get the boat quickly below the surface.

Originally Posted by Sag75

I tested this. I emptied the batteries (needle on zero, no speed at all at ahead flank) and the tank by continuosly pressing key "E" and reordering the depth before surfacing.
At these conditions, at all engines stopped, I was still able to surface in 15' from 100meters pressing "E" key, or "S"! Also I was still able to change the depth acting on the needle of the depthmeter.
However even if the crew said to me we were out of compressed air, and I pressed E for long time to exhaust all air, I noticed the pressure air-meter needle never went on zero, but it stopped at 1 notch over zero.
I guessed I got the same behaviour of the batteries and amperometer before your fix!
I hope this help!

The compressed air dial measures the pressure, i.e., it should never reach 0. Since the u-boat was usually trimmed slightly positive, the slow surfacing might actually be quite realistic

Cheers, LGN1

[Olamagato]

All games SH3, SH2 and SH1 have two simulation serious bugs:
1. You can always recharge the batteries even if the fuel for diesels has been exhausted.
2. You can always surface, even if both engines are destroyed, electrical, high pressure pump, or there is no compressed air.

Probably this bugs have SH4 and SH5 too.
Both to fix.

[LGN1]

Hi,

the first issue is really bad. However, I don't consider the second one critical because even if you can surface in this situation, it will not help you (if the first point is fixed).

Regards, LGN1

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by Olamagato

All games SH3, SH2 and SH1 have two simulation serious bugs:
1. You can always recharge the batteries even if the fuel for diesels has been exhausted.
2. You can always surface, even if both engines are destroyed, electrical, high pressure pump, or there is no compressed air.

Probably this bugs have SH4 and SH5 too.
Both to fix.

SH1 had not the second bug. I remember it, if you exhaust the compressed air, the boat will not surface. You press the "B" key (compressed air to ballast tanks), and if you haven´t compressed air, the sub don´t surface. The good old SH1 was better in that.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Sag75]

Originally Posted by LGN1

IIRC, all tanks could be emptied with compressed air. At least the Regelzellen, Regelbunker, Trimmzellen, and Tauchzelle 3 could be emptied via the pumps. Thus, the u-boat could surface both with enough battery power and with enough compressed air (However, I don't know whether surfacing without electric power could be done in a controlled manner). If you are interested in further details, the original handbook of the VIIC contains much information about this.

The quick diving tank was usually emptied immediately after the boat submerged, i.e., it should be always empty when submerged for a longer time. Its purpose was just to get the boat quickly below the surface.



The compressed air dial measures the pressure, i.e., it should never reach 0. Since the u-boat was usually trimmed slightly positive, the slow surfacing might actually be quite realistic

Cheers, LGN1

Hi! mmmmhh it could be correct if I just waited at 1024x and the sub went at surface by its own. But I got surface pressing E or S, thus ordering blow ballast tanks (but what air it used?) and put dive planes up

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

SH1 had not the second bug. [...] The good old SH1 was better in that.

Indeed you are right. SH1 does not have this bug and several others, which worsened SH2 and SH3. I'm not using SH5, but with this version of such a trend should not be probably called a simulator. Am I right?

[urfisch]

normally with compressed air. the pumps only worked to a certain depth, cause of the pressure.