Strike on North Korea - Page 90

Jimbuna · 10-19-18, 10:39 AM

Things appear quiet atm

Jimbuna · 12-28-18, 08:07 AM

This could cause serious problems for a great many people.

Quote:

Almost 1,000 North Korean defectors have had their personal data leaked after a computer at a South Korean resettlement centre was hacked, the unification ministry said.

A personal computer at the state-run centre was found to have been "infected with a malicious code".

The ministry said this is thought to be the first large-scale information leak involving North Korean defectors.

The hackers' identity and the origin of the cyber-attack is not yet confirmed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46698646

Jimbuna · 02-28-19, 06:57 AM

Quote:

A summit between US President Donald Trump and the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un ended with no agreement after the US refused North Korean demands for sanctions relief, President Trump said.

"It was all about the the sanctions," Mr Trump told reporters. "They wanted the sanctions lifted in their entirety and we couldn't do that."

The pair had been expected to announce progress on denuclearisation.

"Sometimes you have to walk and this was one of those times," Mr Trump said.

According to Mr Trump, Mr Kim made a significant offer - to dismantle all of the Yongbyon complex, the research and production facility at the heart of North Korea's nuclear programme. But in return Mr Kim wanted all sanctions on North Korea lifted, something the US was not prepared to offer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47398974

I'm with Trump on this. As far as I understand matters, Kim was offering very little in return.

Mr Quatro · 02-28-19, 09:54 AM

I think Trump did the right thing not to give in ... He will get ridiculed now, but giving in to Kim would've been worse

Jimbuna · 02-28-19, 10:57 AM

Agreed

mapuc · 02-28-19, 12:04 PM

….not if it's a person who really don't like Mr. Trump

Markus

vienna · 02-28-19, 04:14 PM

The curious thing about the negotiations with NK is how they differ with past international negotiations. The usual protocol is for foreign ministers/secretaries of state and their advisers to meet and work out all the details of an agreement/deal and then have the leaders of the participating nations meet to sign the final agreement; this prevents or mitigates any possible embarrassment to the nations involved and is one of the reasons you very, very seldom see the sort of 'walk away' you saw in the latest NK situation. One can only suppose Trump pulled the trigger too quickly on the negotiations by his representatives; the possible reasons for such abrupt, preemptive action(s), I leave to your speculation...

I hears an interesting analogy presented by a commentator on a conservative radio show this morning: he likened Trump's actions to those of a fellow has a $110 bill, walks into a used car dealership, and demands to buy a 2018 Porsche fo the $100; he gets the expected "No" and walks away. Trump went into the NK summit knowing there was no real final agreement worked out, knew that NK would not agree to his demands, and made a show of walking out. All in all, a rather pointless, expensive and irresponsible action merely intended to make his Trumpettes happy at home. For the rest of us, its just a big "Meh..."...

<O>

Aktungbby · 02-28-19, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm with Trump on this. As far as I understand matters, Kim was offering very little in return.

perhaps if 'the Donald' were to offer 'fatboy' his custoary $130,000 bribe he'd make progress...

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

The curious thing about the negotiations with NK is how they differ with past international negotiations. The usual protocol is for foreign ministers/secretaries of state and their advisers to meet and work out all the details of an agreement/deal and then have the leaders of the participating nations meet to sign the final agreement; this prevents or mitigates any possible embarrassment to the nations involved and is one of the reasons you very, very seldom see the sort of 'walk away' you saw in the latest NK situation. One can only suppose Trump pulled the trigger too quickly on the negotiations by his representatives; the possible reasons for such abrupt, preemptive action(s), I leave to your speculation...

two meglomaniacs with bad haircuts don't need henchmen...I still can't believe Fatboy was'nt arrested for murder(of his half brother) and after the Congressional grilling of his fixer the NK know they are dealing with a 'lame duck' president and can afford to stall on talks....

vienna · 02-28-19, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

perhaps if 'the Donald' were to offer 'fatboy' his custoary $130,000 bribe he'd make progress...

Well, what can you say; this is what happens when you have a much (self) touted "Master Deal Maker" at the helm...

...and I'm pretty sure Kim is not that cheap a date...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

two meglomaniacs with bad haircuts don't need henchmen...I still can't believe Fatboy was'nt arrested for murder(of his half brother) and after the Congressional grilling of his fixer the NK know they are dealing with a 'lame duck' president and can afford to stall on talks....

Kim would have just had the arresting officers executed as well as the prosecutors, something Trump may want to look into, the way things are going for him...

... and the 'lame duck' point is very well taken...

<O>

mapuc · 02-28-19, 06:18 PM

Not according to the news here in Denmark

(used google translate)

"
President Trump didn't do well off at home, the reactions in general is that the president has suffered a significant defeat, says Steffen Kretz, DR News correspondent in the United States.

-Trump is today also criticized by prominent members of his own party, who point out that the failure in Vietnam is largely due to Trump not doing his homework.
"
Here, among the MSM-journalist, the bottom line is--Trump lost big time.

Markus

Catfish · 03-01-19, 02:26 AM

Well it was not exactly a success, but did anyone expect something else?
Trump boasting about what good friends he and Kim are, really

Kim is not the easiest character to talk with, and when you can achieve a cheap "victory" by humiliating the world's leading nation you probably use the incident. If this is especially clever.. i don't think so.

Kim is of course backed and partially controlled by China. Usually there are negotiations between nations before the leaders meet, so the agreements are prinicipally done beforehand, and they only mee to sign the negotiated contracts and show the world how great they are. Trump obviously has no clue about negotiating, and he did not do his homework.
Question is if the outcome could have been any different with better preparation.

Jimbuna · 03-01-19, 07:29 AM

Well, what we do know is that for Kim it is all or nothing so the ball is now back in the US court.

u crank · 03-01-19, 07:38 AM

What I find remarkable is that there are people in the 'orange man bad' camp who are almost gleeful when ever Trump fails at something. In fact they probably hope he fails. Which would you prefer...Trump's attempt at a peaceful settlement or Hillary Clinton's "We came, we saw, he died" approach? How did that turn out?

The administration of President George W. Bush in 2003, negotiated an agreement with Gadhafi. Give up the weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and you can remain in power. Then those two great "negotiators" Obama and Clinton arrived on the scene. The result..a civil war, a humanitarian disaster and refugees flooding Europe, destabilizing governments there. One of her advisers, Sidney Blumenthal encouraged her to tout her "successful strategy" as evidence of her fitness for the White House. Christ.

And that wasn't the only mis-step from the Obama/Clinton 'negotiating team' in the Middle East. There's the Syrian debacle and there is Yemen. Obama bragged about the strategy in Yemen as a model for the war on terror. And that turned out how? One can only imagine what President Hillary Clinton's plan would be for Kim Jong Un.

But yea but...orange man bad.

Platapus · 03-01-19, 07:24 PM

Other reporting is stating that KJU asked for a reduction of some of the sanctions in return for witnessed irreversible destruction of one of the reactors. Getting them to agree to something irreversible (Reactor destruction) in exchange for something reversible sanctions is a pretty good deal.

Of course this puts one in a sad state of affairs trying to figure out who is more trustworthy: Trump or KJU

I am very disappointed that none of these negotiations seems to introduce the DPRK rejoining the NPT so we can get IAEA inspectors back in.

Catfish · 03-02-19, 06:49 AM

Maybe it was just a little too much agent orange, for Vietnam.

10-19-18, 10:39 AM	#1336
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,081 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Things appear quiet atm __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

02-28-19, 09:54 AM	#1339
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think Trump did the right thing not to give in ... He will get ridiculed now, but giving in to Kim would've been worse __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

02-28-19, 10:57 AM	#1340
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,081 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Agreed __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

02-28-19, 04:14 PM	#1342
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,498 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	The curious thing about the negotiations with NK is how they differ with past international negotiations. The usual protocol is for foreign ministers/secretaries of state and their advisers to meet and work out all the details of an agreement/deal and then have the leaders of the participating nations meet to sign the final agreement; this prevents or mitigates any possible embarrassment to the nations involved and is one of the reasons you very, very seldom see the sort of 'walk away' you saw in the latest NK situation. One can only suppose Trump pulled the trigger too quickly on the negotiations by his representatives; the possible reasons for such abrupt, preemptive action(s), I leave to your speculation... I hears an interesting analogy presented by a commentator on a conservative radio show this morning: he likened Trump's actions to those of a fellow has a $110 bill, walks into a used car dealership, and demands to buy a 2018 Porsche fo the $100; he gets the expected "No" and walks away. Trump went into the NK summit knowing there was no real final agreement worked out, knew that NK would not agree to his demands, and made a show of walking out. All in all, a rather pointless, expensive and irresponsible action merely intended to make his Trumpettes happy at home. For the rest of us, its just a big "Meh..."... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

03-01-19, 02:26 AM	#1346
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,893 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Well it was not exactly a success, but did anyone expect something else? Trump boasting about what good friends he and Kim are, really Kim is not the easiest character to talk with, and when you can achieve a cheap "victory" by humiliating the world's leading nation you probably use the incident. If this is especially clever.. i don't think so. Kim is of course backed and partially controlled by China. Usually there are negotiations between nations before the leaders meet, so the agreements are prinicipally done beforehand, and they only mee to sign the negotiated contracts and show the world how great they are. Trump obviously has no clue about negotiating, and he did not do his homework. Question is if the outcome could have been any different with better preparation. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

02-28-19, 12:04 PM	#1341
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,856 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	….not if it's a person who really don't like Mr. Trump Markus

02-28-19, 06:18 PM	#1345
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,856 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Not according to the news here in Denmark (used google translate) " President Trump didn't do well off at home, the reactions in general is that the president has suffered a significant defeat, says Steffen Kretz, DR News correspondent in the United States. -Trump is today also criticized by prominent members of his own party, who point out that the failure in Vietnam is largely due to Trump not doing his homework. " Here, among the MSM-journalist, the bottom line is--Trump lost big time. Markus

03-01-19, 07:29 AM	#1347
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,081 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Well, what we do know is that for Kim it is all or nothing so the ball is now back in the US court. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

03-01-19, 07:38 AM	#1348
u crank Old enough to know better Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 11,557 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	What I find remarkable is that there are people in the 'orange man bad' camp who are almost gleeful when ever Trump fails at something. In fact they probably hope he fails. Which would you prefer...Trump's attempt at a peaceful settlement or Hillary Clinton's "We came, we saw, he died" approach? How did that turn out? The administration of President George W. Bush in 2003, negotiated an agreement with Gadhafi. Give up the weapons of mass destruction peacefully, and you can remain in power. Then those two great "negotiators" Obama and Clinton arrived on the scene. The result..a civil war, a humanitarian disaster and refugees flooding Europe, destabilizing governments there. One of her advisers, Sidney Blumenthal encouraged her to tout her "successful strategy" as evidence of her fitness for the White House. Christ. And that wasn't the only mis-step from the Obama/Clinton 'negotiating team' in the Middle East. There's the Syrian debacle and there is Yemen. Obama bragged about the strategy in Yemen as a model for the war on terror. And that turned out how? One can only imagine what President Hillary Clinton's plan would be for Kim Jong Un. But yea but...orange man bad. __________________ “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

03-01-19, 07:24 PM	#1349
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,936 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Other reporting is stating that KJU asked for a reduction of some of the sanctions in return for witnessed irreversible destruction of one of the reactors. Getting them to agree to something irreversible (Reactor destruction) in exchange for something reversible sanctions is a pretty good deal. Of course this puts one in a sad state of affairs trying to figure out who is more trustworthy: Trump or KJU I am very disappointed that none of these negotiations seems to introduce the DPRK rejoining the NPT so we can get IAEA inspectors back in. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

03-02-19, 06:49 AM	#1350
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 16,893 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Maybe it was just a little too much agent orange, for Vietnam. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.