SUBSIM®  Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM® Radio Room Forums > Sonalysts Combat Sims > Dangerous Waters > DARPA Game – “ACTUV Tactics”
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-04-2011, 10:30 PM   #1
Gargamel
Lucky Sailor
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rome
Posts: 4,204
Downloads: 81
Uploads: 0
Default Effects on wildlife?

Thread may be a bit premature, but from what I'm reading, the active systems are on All the time correct?

In a sub, they rarely turn them on cause the detection goes both ways. In the ACTUV scenario, we don't care about counter-detection. So it's firing constantly correct?

I know there has been issues with active sonar affecting wild life in the past. I personally have been SCUBA diving and heard sonar when the navy was some miles away doing ASW exercizes. It was pretty distracting, and they were far enough away that we never even saw them on the surface. I can only imagine how creatures that use sonar to survive react to that type of noise.

I would assume that this topic probably has been discussed to death over in GT, but the ACTUV angle is thus:

Will this project even be allowed to start if they can't get past the environmental groups? I know they (Greenpeace, EPA, etc) have sued the Navy and won (or at least settled) to prevent active sonar usage in some areas. How's it going to go over when it's an unmanned drone blindly pinging away?
__________________
Luck is a residue of Design.


Gargamel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 11:03 PM   #2
TLAM Strike
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 8,639
Downloads: 29
Uploads: 6


Default

The ACTUV used MF and HF sonar, LF Sonar is what had a negative effect on whales.
__________________


TLAM Strike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 11:04 PM   #3
Gargamel
Lucky Sailor
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rome
Posts: 4,204
Downloads: 81
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLAM Strike View Post
The ACTUV used MF and HF sonar, LF Sonar is what had a negative effect on whales.

Hmm... good point.... I think that was starting to dawn on me as I have been reading more.


Still gonna stir up some rabble rousers though. Unmanned sonar! nooooooo!
__________________
Luck is a residue of Design.


Gargamel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 07:26 AM   #4
Oberon
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 26,378
Downloads: 61
Uploads: 20


Default

I'm still trying to get my head around switching active sonar on and leaving it on....TIS NOT NORMAL...
Oberon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 04:13 AM   #5
FERdeBOER
XO
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spain
Posts: 431
Downloads: 19
Uploads: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLAM Strike View Post
The ACTUV used MF and HF sonar, LF Sonar is what had a negative effect on whales.
You're not right, the problem with cetaceans is more about signal power than frequency. HF sonar is less harming because is rapidly absorbed by water, so is not likely to harm nearby cetaceans because they will likely be detected first at those distances, and active sonar use is forbidden in most of the navies when cetaceans are present. LF and MF sounds travel further and then the possibility to reach cetaceans out of visual or passive sonar range increases a lot.
MF sonar range is less than LF, but its accuracy is better so, what to do to increase detection range? Increase the signal power, and that's what can harm cetaceans.
Other reason about active sonar harming cetaceans is not the "direct hit" of active sonar over them, but the sudden and unexpected loud sound, that can scare the animals when deep-diving, forcing them to interrupt the action, surfacing too fast and thus suffering decompression injuries.

Yes, I study cetaceans (and sometimes I even get paid for it).

Edit: of course I'm talking about peace-time periods.
__________________
Hay dos tipos de buques: los submarinos... y los blancos.
There are two types of ships: the subs... and the targets.
FERdeBOER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 09:01 AM   #6
TLAM Strike
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 8,639
Downloads: 29
Uploads: 6


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
I'm still trying to get my head around switching active sonar on and leaving it on....TIS NOT NORMAL...
You have to think of the ACTUV not as a submarine but a surface ship. It basically is since it doesn't completely submerged.
__________________


TLAM Strike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2018 Subsim