Is SH5 A Good CelNav Practice And Test Bed?

In a word, no. At least not according to my explorations in other threads and experimentations. If anyone knows differently, please advise me.

Given the SH series was never really intended to be a CelNav simulator platform it would be unfair to condemn all the beautiful work which Ubisoft has put into the software as well as all the talent which has been put into the modding. Super kudos to all!

However...

The purpose of this post/thread was to address the CelNav applicability for others who may wish to know.

There are two main issues which are the culprit...

• An Inaccurate Star Field - All of the nautical almanacs of celestial bodies positions are based on the precise positions in the Celestial Sphere. Inaccurate positions can net LOP fixes which are hundreds or thousands of miles off the right place. The hazards of this are obvious.
• A Flat World Map - The Mercator grid of the map essentially leaves the N/S distances unusable outside of the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn. Actually, they only seem to be accurate at the Equator, but becomes less accurate north or south with ever greater error on an exponential curve.

In closing, I encourage everyone to use SH for its intended purpose for which has been created and improved via modding. Perhaps the people at Ubisoft will read this and take the SH series to this next level of true mariners. Given the time frame of the SH series is before GPS, LORAN, etc., it seems to me improving the star field and map to resemble the real CelNav experience would add a new level of realism to SH. After all, how did those submarine commanders know how to get from one place to another?

[Sean C]

A working celestial navigation simulation would be a dream come true for me. There was a sailing simulator which, for a while, claimed to be able to simulate the practice. (The name escapes me at the moment.) However, it too was found to be inaccurate and the developer discontinued working on it.


I wonder if a table of meridional parts (such as that found on page 667 of Bowditch, explanation on page 558) could be used to overcome the "flat Earth" problem. In any case, you'd still be stuck with the inaccurate sky. But, it might mean one less problem to solve for the devs, a modder or anyone else clever enough to find a solution.


Oh, well. I suppose I'll continue to keep a lookout for a sim that includes celestial. I'll let everyone know if I find anything.

[vdr1981]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=206103

@Nathaniel B., I might have a solution.

Originally Posted by vdr1981

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=206103

Hi VDR, Thank you and sorry for the delay. I just re-found my thread.





The answer to the question in my OP seems to be in the affirmative. I am performing some tests using only CelNav and DR to go from a Point A to Point B. Since I enjoy the realism of TC=1 it will take awhile, but I will report back.



I understand how to use a sextant (I use one in real life), but I am trying to understand how to use it in combination with a chronometer (clock, watch, etc.) to calculate longitude. I think I understand, but I won't know until I can test.

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by Capt Codetrucker

@Nathaniel B., I might have a solution.







Hi VDR, Thank you and sorry for the delay. I just re-found my thread.





The answer to the question in my OP seems to be in the affirmative. I am performing some tests using only CelNav and DR to go from a Point A to Point B. Since I enjoy the realism of TC=1 it will take awhile, but I will report back.



I understand how to use a sextant (I use one in real life), but I am trying to understand how to use it in combination with a chronometer (clock, watch, etc.) to calculate longitude. I think I understand, but I won't know until I can test.

Welcome back Capt Codetrucker.

Very few people use full potential of this single best mod ever developed for any SH game (TDW's Real Navigation) but unfortunately I'm not one of them...

For full hardcore celestial navigation, Sjizzle is your man... Luckily, he's active these days on forum so you may wish to check his threads and ask him few questions...

Happy hunting...and navigating...

Originally Posted by vdr1981

Welcome back Capt Codetrucker.

Very few people use full potential of this single best mod ever developed for any SH game (TDW's Real Navigation) but unfortunately I'm not one of them...

For full hardcore celestial navigation, Sjizzle is your man... Luckily, he's active these days on forum so you may wish to check his threads and ask him few questions...

Happy hunting...and navigating...

Thank you, but it sounds like you are suggesting TWoS is not the best option for real CelNav, but Sjizzle would be? Is this correct or did I miss something?



My understanding (or lack of it) is not your fault. It seems the window of my mental clarity has come and gone for now.


But, I press on.

[Sjizzle]

Originally Posted by Capt Codetrucker

Thank you, but it sounds like you are suggesting TWoS is not the best option for real CelNav, but Sjizzle would be? Is this correct or did I miss something?



My understanding (or lack of it) is not your fault. It seems the window of my mental clarity has come and gone for now.


But, I press on.

aloha u can use full celestial navigation in TWoS without any problem... ubisoft have made only 1 thing good in SH5 celestial bodys... they are 99% accurate...

Edit: u can not simulate the real world celestial navigation because the Sh5 sextant it's not like a real world sextan where u can adjust the index error and other things...do not use it for real life training

[YellowSubmarine]

Hello!


I made a modification of the sextant called SH5NewSextant. Maybe it works for you.
Here is a link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5429

Thank you YS! Excellent work! Once I get my map issues straightened out I will hibernate with your sextant. Just me, my boat and the stars.

[Sjizzle]

Originally Posted by YellowSubmarine

Hello!


I made a modification of the sextant called SH5NewSextant. Maybe it works for you.
Here is a link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5429

your mod it's not 100% compatible with TWoS...if somebody use TWoS Campaign Advance Verifier Testing your mod will overwrite the Page layout.py from Campaign Advance Verifier Testing and will not work anymore....

Originally Posted by Sjizzle

your mod it's not 100% compatible with TWoS...if somebody use TWoS Campaign Advance Verifier Testing your mod will overwrite the Page layout.py from Campaign Advance Verifier Testing and will not work anymore....

If this has to do with anything combat related other than dodging enemies I'm okay with that, but I *have* to have Real Navigation. As far as I know, TWoS is the only mod which gives me a real world experience (as far as it can). Am I incorrect? Are there other possibilities?



So what am I to do? Also, is the damage already done or am I safe to let JGSME remove the incompatible mod? Guidance please.

[Sjizzle]

Originally Posted by Capt Codetrucker

If this has to do with anything combat related other than dodging enemies I'm okay with that, but I *have* to have Real Navigation. As far as I know, TWoS is the only mod which gives me a real world experience (as far as it can). Am I incorrect? Are there other possibilities?



So what am I to do? Also, is the damage already done or am I safe to let JGSME remove the incompatible mod? Guidance please.

this text is from the mod documentation

" Campaign transfers in TWoS are date controlled. This means that, in order to trigger the campaign transfer, you will have to be ON PATROL when ending date of your current campaign chapter is reached.
Campaign transfer should then be initiated, or it will be at least few days after the ending date. This is important so pay special attention not to skip these dates due to badly timed docking...
The end date of first "Coastal Waters" campaign is on 1st June 1940, "Happy Times" ends on 1st march 1941 ect.

However, due to certain broken aspects of SH5's launcher, there is a possibility that even upon reaching campaign chapter ending date, campaign transfer still may fail to initialize (your patrol just goes on without any visible flotilla objectives).

This add-on should inform you will the automatic campaign transfer at designated date be successful upon loading a gamesave. Note that if you are getting persistent "problem detected" messages even after 2-3 reloads, the message may be false positive actually.

The addon is not necessary until you're just a few days away from your designated campaign transfer date. Also, occasional "problem detected" messages after you enter or leave the bunker can be ignored. "

@Sjizzle - Thanks for you trying to explain, but I don't think I am understanding? FYI - I have not been using any specific campaign, mission or scenario, so the time matching may not be applicable to my style of simming? When I started my campaign and talked to the officer who passes out the missions I told home to start the patrol. He asked if I wanted to leave without a mission (or something like that) and I told him yes. I got on my sub at 2100z, piloted out of Memal Harbor and ordered a heading of 315* to get me away from land and sort of lost in order to test the capabilities of the sextant and SH5. I hope this makes sense?


So, if Yellow Submarine's sextant mod is in conflict with TWoS then I need to...

• Remove it and use the stock sextant
• Find another mod which will replace TWoS's Real Navigation capabilities and use the SH5NewSextant mod.

What I need you to tell me is if I have already broken TWoS's Real Navigation functions or if I only need to use JGSME to remove it? If I have already corrupted SH5 and/or TWoS then I need to cut my losses, delete and start over.


The fact is I am woefully ignorant of the workings SH5 and TWoS. I try to read, but in a very short while I end up really confused with the complexity of details unless I have a good day mentally (doesn't happen often). Maybe I am trying to follow a path which does not exist? I also wonder if I am beginning to take up too much of this community's time?


Please let me know whether I need to reinstall SH5 or remove the new sextant mod. Thank you for your time.

[Sjizzle]

Originally Posted by Capt Codetrucker

@Sjizzle - Thanks for you trying to explain, but I don't think I am understanding? FYI - I have not been using any specific campaign, mission or scenario, so the time matching may not be applicable to my style of simming? When I started my campaign and talked to the officer who passes out the missions I told home to start the patrol. He asked if I wanted to leave without a mission (or something like that) and I told him yes. I got on my sub at 2100z, piloted out of Memal Harbor and ordered a heading of 315* to get me away from land and sort of lost in order to test the capabilities of the sextant and SH5. I hope this makes sense?


So, if Yellow Submarine's sextant mod is in conflict with TWoS then I need to...

• Remove it and use the stock sextant
• Find another mod which will replace TWoS's Real Navigation capabilities and use the SH5NewSextant mod.

What I need you to tell me is if I have already broken TWoS's Real Navigation functions or if I only need to use JGSME to remove it? If I have already corrupted SH5 and/or TWoS then I need to cut my losses, delete and start over.


The fact is I am woefully ignorant of the workings SH5 and TWoS. I try to read, but in a very short while I end up really confused with the complexity of details unless I have a good day mentally (doesn't happen often). Maybe I am trying to follow a path which does not exist? I also wonder if I am beginning to take up too much of this community's time?


Please let me know whether I need to reinstall SH5 or remove the new sextant mod. Thank you for your time.

in your case no need TWoS Campaign Advance Verifier Testing so u can go and sail role play where u wish .... u didn't broke anything

Originally Posted by Sjizzle

in your case no need TWoS Campaign Advance Verifier Testing so u can go and sail role play where u wish .... u didn't broke anything

Whew! Thank you! That is the best news I've heard.