Ugh: KIA With Followup Questions

Captain Coward · 09-29-16, 08:26 PM

March 1942, 20th mission on my way to AM11 from Brest with U-132 Type 7C. West of Ireland, night time and my three top notch watch crew (WO included) are all in full health in the conning tower. Traveling at a TC of 64 at 8 knots due north. Weather clear, no rain, fog, clouds etc. With no warning from my on deck crew my "stealth meter" goes from green to red. I was in magnified map mode and on previous occasions a plane would show up on it to give me time to crash dive or at least a popup window would appear to ask me what to do. This time no warnings what so ever. So I press the C key for crash dive but it was too late. Caught on the surface by what I think was a PBY...I'm dead.

What the heck did I do wrong? TC too high I'm assuming, I don't know. Or the radar I had installed worked against me. I didn't stand a chance, now I'm fish food.

I know what you're ready to ask: What Mods? Ahhh, here leads to the next question. Up to now I have been playing SH3 with no mods, no Commander etc. Before I use any I purchased a two disc set from Frys with SH2 & SH3. I'd like to give SH2 a go now prior to adding the gazillion mods for SH3 which will take the game to a new level. I doubt I'll try SH2 after modding out SH3 so I thought I'd give it a shot now.

Is SH2 a good prequel or a waste of time? Any mods you would recommend?

Thanks in advance for your advice, opinions and sympathy. U-132 was a fine ship!

Captain Coward

Edit: I should add (to clarify) all positions on conning tower were manned. Three watchman, one top notch sailor and my WO. Total of five.

Mittelwaechter · 09-29-16, 09:05 PM

Assuming you had only three men (two crew + WO) on the conning tower: watch their routine and realize that two crew only scan 180° of the horizon. Every crew member scans only a 90° sector. So only with all four positions manned the complete 360° are covered. Additionally the WO scans the full 360° circle, but he freezes occasionally - especially after a requested report. This might have caused your problem. The PBY coming out of an unobserved sector and the WO staring somewhere. Man all conning positions when surfaced!

Captain Coward · 09-29-16, 09:54 PM

Thanks for the quick reply.

I should have said in my post I had three of my officers along with a sailor & my WO in the conning tower for a total of five. No open slots on deck, all positions manned by (somewhat) seasoned veterans. The best I had were on watch and failed U-132 and the rest of her crew.

Captain Coward

Edit: I was kind of hoping for a more spectacular demise then just a screen mentioning my doom. I trip to the bottom or implosion would be more fitting as well as dramatic.

Osmium Steele · 09-30-16, 07:10 AM

I lived the boredom of submarine life on patrol, so I don't like it in my game.
Hence, I've never survived to 1943. TC is your enemy from 'late '41 onward.

I try to never go above 32, and if I have to leave my seat, it is on real time or paused. I still fail miserably. So little patience.

Sailor Steve · 09-30-16, 09:06 AM

1. In the stock game, when any enemy is sighted it automatically reduces the TC to x8. X8??? You can adjust the settings to make it go to x1, but that requires some editing, which is done in NotePad and is easy enough to do, but SH3 Commander lets you do all that with the press of a button.

2. The "Auto-Response", as in what happens when an enemy is sighted. The first time your crew sees an enemy ship or plane it pauses and asks you what to do. After that it will do whatever you selected that first time. I always choose "Take No Action", mainly because I don't want the boat crash-diving in 20 meters of water. That does invite disaster with planes unless, as I said before, you reset the default TC when spotted to x1.

3. SH2 was a great game in its time, but was also a bitter disappointment. The original Silent Hunter, its follow-on Patrol Discs and finally Silent Hunter Command Edition were far better than all WW2 sub sims that came before, and set the mark for those that would follow. SH2 had much better graphics, and some fun elements, but they did away with one thing that made SH1 so good - the random campaign. SH2 consists of a series of single missions strung together to make a "campaign", but you had to complete the first one before you could go on to the second, and so on - just like a first-person shooter. The missions were good, and some modders made alternate missions, so there was some variety. Also SH2 was required for the brilliant 'Pacific Aces' mod which put you back into an American sub a la SH1, and had a "mission" that lasted a whole year, so it felt much more random.

SH3 is fun, but SH3 was revolutionary. Despite its flaws, many of us are still playing it eleven years after its inception. Use a supermod. Use add-on mods. Above all, use Commander, which is not a mod at all but an external tool that adds more to the game than you could ever imagine.

VikingGrandad · 09-30-16, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

Assuming you had only three men (two crew + WO) on the conning tower: watch their routine and realize that two crew only scan 180° of the horizon. Every crew member scans only a 90° sector. So only with all four positions manned the complete 360° are covered. Additionally the WO scans the full 360° circle, but he freezes occasionally - especially after a requested report. This might have caused your problem. The PBY coming out of an unobserved sector and the WO staring somewhere. Man all conning positions when surfaced!

Interesting!

I always thought (actually, guessed!) that the watch crew effectiveness was purely and simply due to how full the conning tower green bar is on the Crew Management screen, like this:

Scenario #1: A full 5-man crew are on the tower but the bar is only at 50% (semi-fatigued crew, no-one has a 'Watchman' qualification)

Scenario #1: A 4-man crew are on the tower but the green bar is at 100% (crew have no fatigue, 2 men have the 'Watchman' qualification)

In Scenario #2, I thought there would be always a higher chance of spotting ships & planes at max range (16km) compared to Scenario #1.

If the chance of spotting ships/planes at 16km is also affected by the number of crew and the orientation of each man at any point in time, that's pretty impressive!

Assuming all other relevant factors are equal (weather, time of day, etc.) which of all these factors (number of watch crew, fatigue, rank, Watchman qualification) affect the spotting distance and the spotting chance?

Captain Coward · 09-30-16, 01:27 PM

Thanks again for the info, especially to Sailor Steve. It sounds like I should've been using SH3 Commander from the start. I'll replay my 20th mission using it this time around (rather then starting a new career) and see how far I get. If/when I get sunk again (or make it to the end of the war, highly unlikely as I'm an idiot) I'll think again about SH2.

I don't think I'll try any further mods yet as quite honestly I'm overwhelmed by what is available. I do have to applaud and congratulate all those who have spent many hours putting them together (I know that was a LOT of time spent) but for a Newbie like myself I have no idea where to start. I have done a lot of reading and searching here (along with other web sites) and all I've done is get more confused. Sure, I'd like to use Grey Wolves but from my understanding I need to uninstall SH3 prior to using and modify the cfg file (?) in SH3 Commander. Also, from what I've read I'll need JSGME to manage the mods I install. I believe that is installed with GWX. Then there is NYGM which I am still reading about and of course the 945 files available here. My head is spinning...

Please don't think I'm complaining or not Google searching this but it really is a lot of info to absorb. From what I've read here, the GWX manual alone is 600 pages, yikes! Yes, I have read the "SH3 Newbie Guide, Links and other helpful stuff thread", it does make sense to me for the most part.

I get the feeling you folks have heard this before from us new captains (i.e. knuckleheads) so forgive me if this type of comment has been posted 50+ times before.

Once again "hats off" to those of you dedicated to SH3 and Subsim, pat yourself on the back but not too long as to miss incoming PBYs!

Captain Coward

Sailor Steve · 09-30-16, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Coward

Thanks again for the info, especially to Sailor Steve.

You are most welcome.

Quote:

It sounds like I should've been using SH3 Commander from the start. I'll replay my 20th mission using it this time around (rather then starting a new career) and see how far I get. If/when I get sunk again (or make it to the end of the war, highly unlikely as I'm an idiot) I'll think again about SH2.

Once you download Commander, be sure to read the Manual. You can do so directly by clicking on the '?' in the main screen. Commander itself has optional mods available. Once you get it set up I'll be glad to explain those. Meanwhile here is a thread that will expose you to a lot of available mods. Unfortunately the OP took down all of his pictures, but the rest are still there and give a good overview of what's available.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=170090

Quote:

I don't think I'll try any further mods yet as quite honestly I'm overwhelmed by what is available. I do have to applaud and congratulate all those who have spent many hours putting them together (I know that was a LOT of time spent) but for a Newbie like myself I have no idea where to start. I have done a lot of reading and searching here (along with other web sites) and all I've done is get more confused. Sure, I'd like to use Grey Wolves but from my understanding I need to uninstall SH3 prior to using and modify the cfg file (?) in SH3 Commander. Also, from what I've read I'll need JSGME to manage the mods I install. I believe that is installed with GWX. Then there is NYGM which I am still reading about and of course the 945 files available here. My head is spinning...

Take your time. There's plenty of it. Yes, GWX requires a fresh install. One of the things you can do with a fresh install is load Multi-SH3, which aids you in running several different versions and keeping track of them. NYGM is also good, as is LSH3 and WAC.

Don't be intimidated by the GWX Manual, or any of the others. You can download the Manual separately and just browse through it. A lot of it is for information only, and you can pick and choose what you want to read. The good part is that many of the older members here can remember when games like this came in big boxes with huge paper manuals that explained everything you could possibly want to know concerning the reality and the game. The GWX Manual is like that.

Quote:

Please don't think I'm complaining or not Google searching this but it really is a lot of info to absorb. From what I've read here, the GWX manual alone is 600 pages, yikes! Yes, I have read the "SH3 Newbie Guide, Links and other helpful stuff thread", it does make sense to me for the most part.

Again, take all the time you need and ask all the questions you want. Most of us love to talk about the game and the history, and love to share what we know. And what we don't, but that's another story.

Quote:

I get the feeling you folks have heard this before from us new captains (i.e. knuckleheads) so forgive me if this type of comment has been posted 50+ times before.

Yep. On the other hand we all started somewhere and the main goal is to help people enjoy the game. There is indeed a lot to learn, and sharing what we've learned is just as fun as playing the game.

Vince82 · 10-01-16, 09:09 AM

At night without metox surprise attacks are realistic. But to me this sounds like te game didn't notice the aircraft for some reason.

SH3 Commander also has an option to lower TC when being hunted.

Captain Coward · 10-01-16, 02:31 PM

Thanks (again) for the insight and advice Sailor Steve. Vince82: Yes, I do recall this happening before earlier in the war. Luckily back then the aircraft were bad shots so I survived.

So here is what I've done:
Revived my boat, captain & crew back from the dead. I guess this is "cheating" but my justification is I'm blaming my early death to a game glitch.
Started my 20th mission from Brest and gave all promotions and medals to all of the crew on look out duty.
Installed SH3 Commander, read the manual and made some changes (not too many): 1) Hull Integrity % on "show" 2) Use Fatigue Model "No fatigue" 3) When enemy ship or plane detected set to "1"

My new patrol area is now BE99 rather than AM11. I think I've been sent here before and I'm feeling brave (or stupid) enough this time to enter the Strait of Gilbralter.

I also thought about changing to another flotilla in order to take part in Drumbeat along the US coast but the thoughts of traveling many, many miles put me off. Perhaps I should rethink this decision for the next patrol.

As far as aircraft swooping out of nowhere to kill me (again), I did find this thread on how to change the Airstrike.cfg file to decrease the number of them. I'm wondering if this is a workable solution to the amount of the planes the allied have in the sky:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/15210/...1813542407977/

I hope I don't get in trouble with the mods here for posting this from another site, I don't want to rock the boat (pun intended). My apologies if this is prohibited.

Anyway, if you have time let me know about the gfg changes and the length of time needed to get to the US.

Thanks in advance for the assistance. I'll keep you updated.

Captain Coward

09-30-16, 07:10 AM	#4
Osmium Steele Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Upper midwest USA Posts: 1,101 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	I lived the boredom of submarine life on patrol, so I don't like it in my game. Hence, I've never survived to 1943. TC is your enemy from 'late '41 onward. I try to never go above 32, and if I have to leave my seat, it is on real time or paused. I still fail miserably. So little patience. __________________ In the month of July of the year 1348, between the feasts of St. Benedict and of St. Swithin, a strange thing came upon England... My U297 build thread

09-30-16, 09:06 AM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	1. In the stock game, when any enemy is sighted it automatically reduces the TC to x8. X8??? You can adjust the settings to make it go to x1, but that requires some editing, which is done in NotePad and is easy enough to do, but SH3 Commander lets you do all that with the press of a button. 2. The "Auto-Response", as in what happens when an enemy is sighted. The first time your crew sees an enemy ship or plane it pauses and asks you what to do. After that it will do whatever you selected that first time. I always choose "Take No Action", mainly because I don't want the boat crash-diving in 20 meters of water. That does invite disaster with planes unless, as I said before, you reset the default TC when spotted to x1. 3. SH2 was a great game in its time, but was also a bitter disappointment. The original Silent Hunter, its follow-on Patrol Discs and finally Silent Hunter Command Edition were far better than all WW2 sub sims that came before, and set the mark for those that would follow. SH2 had much better graphics, and some fun elements, but they did away with one thing that made SH1 so good - the random campaign. SH2 consists of a series of single missions strung together to make a "campaign", but you had to complete the first one before you could go on to the second, and so on - just like a first-person shooter. The missions were good, and some modders made alternate missions, so there was some variety. Also SH2 was required for the brilliant 'Pacific Aces' mod which put you back into an American sub a la SH1, and had a "mission" that lasted a whole year, so it felt much more random. SH3 is fun, but SH3 was revolutionary. Despite its flaws, many of us are still playing it eleven years after its inception. Use a supermod. Use add-on mods. Above all, use Commander, which is not a mod at all but an external tool that adds more to the game than you could ever imagine. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

09-30-16, 01:27 PM	#7
Captain Coward Watch Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 16 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Thanks again for the info, especially to Sailor Steve. It sounds like I should've been using SH3 Commander from the start. I'll replay my 20th mission using it this time around (rather then starting a new career) and see how far I get. If/when I get sunk again (or make it to the end of the war, highly unlikely as I'm an idiot) I'll think again about SH2. I don't think I'll try any further mods yet as quite honestly I'm overwhelmed by what is available. I do have to applaud and congratulate all those who have spent many hours putting them together (I know that was a LOT of time spent) but for a Newbie like myself I have no idea where to start. I have done a lot of reading and searching here (along with other web sites) and all I've done is get more confused. Sure, I'd like to use Grey Wolves but from my understanding I need to uninstall SH3 prior to using and modify the cfg file (?) in SH3 Commander. Also, from what I've read I'll need JSGME to manage the mods I install. I believe that is installed with GWX. Then there is NYGM which I am still reading about and of course the 945 files available here. My head is spinning... Please don't think I'm complaining or not Google searching this but it really is a lot of info to absorb. From what I've read here, the GWX manual alone is 600 pages, yikes! Yes, I have read the "SH3 Newbie Guide, Links and other helpful stuff thread", it does make sense to me for the most part. I get the feeling you folks have heard this before from us new captains (i.e. knuckleheads) so forgive me if this type of comment has been posted 50+ times before. Once again "hats off" to those of you dedicated to SH3 and Subsim, pat yourself on the back but not too long as to miss incoming PBYs! Captain Coward Last edited by Captain Coward; 09-30-16 at 01:36 PM.

09-29-16, 08:26 PM	#1
Captain Coward Watch Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 16 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Ugh: KIA With Followup Questions March 1942, 20th mission on my way to AM11 from Brest with U-132 Type 7C. West of Ireland, night time and my three top notch watch crew (WO included) are all in full health in the conning tower. Traveling at a TC of 64 at 8 knots due north. Weather clear, no rain, fog, clouds etc. With no warning from my on deck crew my "stealth meter" goes from green to red. I was in magnified map mode and on previous occasions a plane would show up on it to give me time to crash dive or at least a popup window would appear to ask me what to do. This time no warnings what so ever. So I press the C key for crash dive but it was too late. Caught on the surface by what I think was a PBY...I'm dead. What the heck did I do wrong? TC too high I'm assuming, I don't know. Or the radar I had installed worked against me. I didn't stand a chance, now I'm fish food. I know what you're ready to ask: What Mods? Ahhh, here leads to the next question. Up to now I have been playing SH3 with no mods, no Commander etc. Before I use any I purchased a two disc set from Frys with SH2 & SH3. I'd like to give SH2 a go now prior to adding the gazillion mods for SH3 which will take the game to a new level. I doubt I'll try SH2 after modding out SH3 so I thought I'd give it a shot now. Is SH2 a good prequel or a waste of time? Any mods you would recommend? Thanks in advance for your advice, opinions and sympathy. U-132 was a fine ship! Captain Coward Edit: I should add (to clarify) all positions on conning tower were manned. Three watchman, one top notch sailor and my WO. Total of five. Last edited by Captain Coward; 09-29-16 at 09:56 PM.

09-29-16, 09:05 PM	#2
Mittelwaechter The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Assuming you had only three men (two crew + WO) on the conning tower: watch their routine and realize that two crew only scan 180° of the horizon. Every crew member scans only a 90° sector. So only with all four positions manned the complete 360° are covered. Additionally the WO scans the full 360° circle, but he freezes occasionally - especially after a requested report. This might have caused your problem. The PBY coming out of an unobserved sector and the WO staring somewhere. Man all conning positions when surfaced! __________________ 10 happy wolves rear 90 blinded, ensnared sheep. 90 happy sheep banish the wolves. Arrest the 1% - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6hg1oNeGE

09-29-16, 09:54 PM	#3
Captain Coward Watch Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 16 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the quick reply. I should have said in my post I had three of my officers along with a sailor & my WO in the conning tower for a total of five. No open slots on deck, all positions manned by (somewhat) seasoned veterans. The best I had were on watch and failed U-132 and the rest of her crew. Captain Coward Edit: I was kind of hoping for a more spectacular demise then just a screen mentioning my doom. I trip to the bottom or implosion would be more fitting as well as dramatic.

10-01-16, 09:09 AM	#9
Vince82 Engineer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 216 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	At night without metox surprise attacks are realistic. But to me this sounds like te game didn't notice the aircraft for some reason. SH3 Commander also has an option to lower TC when being hunted.

10-01-16, 02:31 PM	#10
Captain Coward Watch Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 16 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Thanks (again) for the insight and advice Sailor Steve. Vince82: Yes, I do recall this happening before earlier in the war. Luckily back then the aircraft were bad shots so I survived. So here is what I've done: Revived my boat, captain & crew back from the dead. I guess this is "cheating" but my justification is I'm blaming my early death to a game glitch. Started my 20th mission from Brest and gave all promotions and medals to all of the crew on look out duty. Installed SH3 Commander, read the manual and made some changes (not too many): 1) Hull Integrity % on "show" 2) Use Fatigue Model "No fatigue" 3) When enemy ship or plane detected set to "1" My new patrol area is now BE99 rather than AM11. I think I've been sent here before and I'm feeling brave (or stupid) enough this time to enter the Strait of Gilbralter. I also thought about changing to another flotilla in order to take part in Drumbeat along the US coast but the thoughts of traveling many, many miles put me off. Perhaps I should rethink this decision for the next patrol. As far as aircraft swooping out of nowhere to kill me (again), I did find this thread on how to change the Airstrike.cfg file to decrease the number of them. I'm wondering if this is a workable solution to the amount of the planes the allied have in the sky: http://steamcommunity.com/app/15210/...1813542407977/ I hope I don't get in trouble with the mods here for posting this from another site, I don't want to rock the boat (pun intended). My apologies if this is prohibited. Anyway, if you have time let me know about the gfg changes and the length of time needed to get to the US. Thanks in advance for the assistance. I'll keep you updated. Captain Coward