[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[granite00]

When do you think you'll build a small mod that allows the player to determine the enemy AI aggressiveness/capability, i.e. stock, TMO, current FOTRSU, maybe other levels?

[Immelmann]

Something else I thought worth mentioning. Still playing v 0.53 in the Balao as I want to finish the war before upgrading again. I ran across the IJN I-400-class submarine cruising on the surface at night. At least I'm pretty sure that was the model of sub I was looking at. I can't find any IJN subs in the recognition manual either. Am I looking in the wrong place by looking for IJN subs with all the other IJN surface warships? He did not show up on my surface radar at all. Not even at close range. My first clue that he was out there was from my sonar man then later deck watch picked him up. If I can figure out exactly where and when this was I will update you on that. I think I still have it saved. Died the first time with a foolish surface shooting match. The IJN gunners on that boat are deadly accurate. Second time I tried a submerged approach but missed him with the torpedoes. At least I survived that encounter. I make a practice of not letting too many saved games stack up because that seems to cause problems for me and SH4. I hope I still have that one. Currently I am some distance west of Midway January 1944 and for once I have plenty of fuel and a full load of torpedoes when I radar detect a large friendly task force. They are steaming roughly SW at 11 knots. I have decided to exercise US submarine captain's prerogative by disregarding my assigned objective and joining the flotilla. The addition of my boat makes 17 total our total number. Among that number two US Battleships. I know the game is built to be historically accurate to some degree. I'm thinking they are the Massachusetts and Tennessee. I'm hoping, given the time frame, that we are steaming for the Kwajalein Atoll and that now famous naval bombardment. Making popcorn now.

[propbeanie]

As historical reference Immelmann, the I-400 class was the largest submarine in the world, and had a 5.5" DG. A relatively stable gun platform compared to yours. Your boat is about 300 foot long, a toy boat compared to the Sen Toku... As comparison, US DD were about 350 foot long, the Sen Toku was 400 foot... Surface dual is definitely ill-advised. It usually takes 2 to 3 torpedoes to sink it in-game. s7rikeback is working with keltos01 (and cdrsubron7? - can't remember) to bring even more encounters with AI Japanese submarines - oh boy! - some of them will have dual deck guns, or a single mount with two barrels, depending on model of boat... yikes!

Originally Posted by granite00

When do you think you'll build a small mod that allows the player to determine the enemy AI aggressiveness/capability, i.e. stock, TMO, current FOTRSU, maybe other levels?

Definitely a Work In Progress. Previous attempts have been disappointing, but the tweaking continues. As for a mod for that, unknown at this time...

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Immelmann

[COLOR=white] Still playing v 0.53 in the Balao as I want to finish the war before upgrading again. I ran across the IJN I-400-class submarine cruising on the surface at night. At least I'm pretty sure that was the model of sub I was looking at. I can't find any IJN subs in the recognition manual either. Am I looking in the wrong place by looking for IJN subs with all the other IJN surface warships? He did not show up on my surface radar at all. Not even at close range.

I'm pretty sure I've updated the SJ Surface Search radar to pick up an object like a sub in the v0.56 Beta of Ultimate. I'll have to make sure.

You make a good point about the Japanese sub not listed in the Recognition Manual. That's something we can do......... update the RM with some of its contents. I know there's a couple of ships not showing (run the Museum with the RM open to check); and a couple of them are of poor quality. I think we can do better.

By the way Immelmann, WELCOME to SubSim and Fotrs Ultimate!!

===============

As propbeanie stated we're not finished with Ultimate yet regarding the AI parameters. As a matter of fact, we've not even touched them since our project started!! What you see with Fotrs Ultimate is what the original modification used. The reports of Jap Destroyers finding you with their sonar at 300 feet depths is out of line in my opinion. In fact, the whole idea of the Japanese having comparable equipment to our technology of the time period is a farce. They were ill equipped, to say nothing of their lack of knowledge of how to use the equipment they had.

Their "convoy system" (if you could even call it that) was nothing like the Atlantic side. The Japanese merchant shipping were essentially "on their own" when it came to going between point A/B. Little ASW cover.....no self respecting Jap Regional Commander (usually Army) would waste a Destroyer on escorting a couple of merchant ships carrying oil from Indonesia while they passed through his area! Forget about it, he had bigger fish to fry. Those merchants were on their own!!

If I had it my way, the game would be boring due to the AI authenticity the Japanese should have.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

I'm pretty sure I've updated the SJ Surface Search radar to pick up an object like a sub in the v0.56 Beta of Ultimate. I'll have to make sure.

You make a good point about the Japanese sub not listed in the Recognition Manual. That's something we can do......... update the RM with some of its contents. I know there's a couple of ships not showing (run the Museum with the RM open to check); and a couple of them are of poor quality. I think we can do better.

By the way Immelmann, WELCOME to SubSim and Fotrs Ultimate!!

How did you accomplish this (getting subs to show up on radar) ?

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

How did you accomplish this (getting subs to show up on radar) ?

If I tell you I'd have to........

No, no...we won't go there!!

You have to become familiar with the Radar system and what each parameter within the specific radar unit's .sim file does. By now (I know you're dabbling with the game files) you should be able to look at the 3D model of an object (found in the .dat files), and know how to follow the object's ID into its corresponding additional files (.sim, .zon, .dsd) that make the object do what it's intended to do.

The .sim file for the radar contain the parameters that set the radar's operation....... Maximum Distance of operation; its Elevation (up/down); its Bearing (left/right); what size the object must be in order to be detected; how often it rotates; when an object is detected, what percentage of time will the radar actually display it, etc. I'm not going to get into the particular specifics...that's up to you to test/discover.....but, many times changing one thing will effect another.

My best advice is for you to set up a test mission; eliminate all other sensors (visual, sonar) and see what the Radar does.....or doesn't do. Make a calculated "guess" as to the parameter changes.....do one at a time, and run the game to see what your change did. The more you do, the greater your knowledge.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

The SJ (surface search) for all subs in Ultimate are available June 1942. The SD (air search) is on all subs at the start of the war.

That's what I thought, but it's not working for me in my GAR out of a Midway Career started on December 8, 1941.
After completing several patrols through late 41 and early to mid 1942 without SJ radar and anticipating one in June 1942:
Left Midway 6/19/42 - no SJ available, but I did get a cut down Conning Tower.
Arrived Midway 7/22/42 - SJ Not available.
Left Midway 8/8/42 - SJ not available.
Arrived Midway 8/29/42 - still no SJ available, and no Sub upgrade, despite accumulating 367,795 tons over six patrols. I was able to upgrade to a 4" deck gun (stern mount) and a twin 20MM AA gun.

I was really hoping for a surface radar, but no joy.

One other thing to mention is that as an experiment I added Webster's Stop the Shouting mod, and it worked! I sustained 58% damage to the hull in a deck gun exchange with a Jap submarine (he lost), and there was no shouting from an crewmember all the way back to Midway. I'm hoping someone will incorporate his mod into the next FOTARS Ultimate update, because that constant shouting after taking a little damage is irritating!

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

That's what I thought, but it's not working for me in my GAR out of a Midway Career started on December 8, 1941.
After completing several patrols through late 41 and early to mid 1942 without SJ radar and anticipating one in June 1942:
Left Midway 6/19/42 - no SJ available, but I did get a cut down Conning Tower.
Arrived Midway 7/22/42 - SJ Not available.
Left Midway 8/8/42 - SJ not available.
Arrived Midway 8/29/42 - still no SJ available, and no Sub upgrade, despite accumulating 367,795 tons over six patrols. I was able to upgrade to a 4" deck gun (stern mount) and a twin 20MM AA gun.

We will look into it.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by granite00

When do you think you'll build a small mod that allows the player to determine the enemy AI aggressiveness/capability, i.e. stock, TMO, current FOTRSU, maybe other levels?

I have the parameters necessary. In order to maintain focus we're not working on Certified FOTRSU Mod Plugins until the core mod reaches v1.0.

However, player AI selection is my top priority.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

If I had it my way, the game would be boring due to the AI authenticity the Japanese should have.

And that is the way it will be. Every player will have the way to make the Japanese have whatever ability they think the Japanese should have.

Never forget that FOTRSU, because it is based on TMO, is not a realism mod. It's a DIFFICULTY mod. When we're done you will be able to change that!

Right now FOTRSU is a normal mod. Whatever we, the modders, think is right is what will happen. But when we're done players will be in charge of their games for the first time in the ten year history of SH4.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

That's what I thought, but it's not working for me in my GAR out of a Midway Career started on December 8, 1941.
After completing several patrols through late 41 and early to mid 1942 without SJ radar and anticipating one in June 1942:
Left Midway 6/19/42 - no SJ available, but I did get a cut down Conning Tower.
Arrived Midway 7/22/42 - SJ Not available.
Left Midway 8/8/42 - SJ not available.
Arrived Midway 8/29/42 - still no SJ available, and no Sub upgrade, despite accumulating 367,795 tons over six patrols. I was able to upgrade to a 4" deck gun (stern mount) and a twin 20MM AA gun.

I was really hoping for a surface radar, but no joy.

One other thing to mention is that as an experiment I added Webster's Stop the Shouting mod, and it worked! I sustained 58% damage to the hull in a deck gun exchange with a Jap submarine (he lost), and there was no shouting from an crewmember all the way back to Midway. I'm hoping someone will incorporate his mod into the next FOTARS Ultimate update, because that constant shouting after taking a little damage is irritating!

You have to remember the blind chimp. There is a schedule for when various upgrades MIGHT be made available to you. The only chance to get these upgrades is when you go into port. That alone is the best reason for the "accomplish the objective and end the cruise" strategy.

Now, when you get there, the deck gun laser blaster upgrade might be on the availability schedule. But will YOU be offered it? Enter the blind chimp. He is on a swivel chair in a darkened room, wearing a blindfold (must have redundancy in the name of fairness). This room is round, diameter 6', with the chimp's chair in the center. On the walls are the upgrades on the upgrade schecule. The chimp has three darts. The admiral gives our chimp a spin and the chimp blindly (note the brilliance of the system here!) tosses his three darts.

If one or more of them stick into the 8½" x 11" piece of paper bearing the words "laser blaster deck gun upgrade" affixed to the wall, then you are offered that in the game. If no darts strike home you are not offered it. It is entirely possible (because you are pathetic and can't BUY good luck) you could go your entire career and never be offered the laser blaster deck gun upgrade.

This is hard coded into the game. Of course you can game the system! Save the game outside your home port. End the cruise and look for your upgrades. What??? No laser blaster deck gun upgrade! Quit. reload your cheater save. Repeat as necessary until you have your laser blaster deck gun.

This is likely the best anybody can do with the game unless some serious .exe patching is done.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

You have to remember the blind chimp. There is a schedule for when various upgrades MIGHT be made available to you. The only chance to get these upgrades is when you go into port. That alone is the best reason for the "accomplish the objective and end the cruise" strategy.

Now, when you get there, the deck gun laser blaster upgrade might be on the availability schedule. But will YOU be offered it? Enter the blind chimp. He is on a swivel chair in a darkened room, wearing a blindfold (must have redundancy in the name of fairness). This room is round, diameter 6', with the chimp's chair in the center. On the walls are the upgrades on the upgrade schecule. The chimp has three darts. The admiral gives our chimp a spin and the chimp blindly (note the brilliance of the system here!) tosses his three darts.

If one or more of them stick into the 8½" x 11" piece of paper bearing the words "laser blaster deck gun upgrade" affixed to the wall, then you are offered that in the game. If no darts strike home you are not offered it. It is entirely possible (because you are pathetic and can't BUY good luck) you could go your entire career and never be offered the laser blaster deck gun upgrade.

This is hard coded into the game. Of course you can game the system! Save the game outside your home port. End the cruise and look for your upgrades. What??? No laser blaster deck gun upgrade! Quit. reload your cheater save. Repeat as necessary until you have your laser blaster deck gun.

This is likely the best anybody can do with the game unless some serious .exe patching is done.

A great explanation, RR, as usual from you. Thanks much. I'm going to just continue to do my job, sink Jap ships, kill Jap pilots (when the twin 40MM is available and not a minute before), and help win this war.

Thanks again!

[Rockin Robbins]

What the twin 40s are great for is playing jack-in-the-box with those damned gunboats and sub chasers! Pop up. Take some of these! Submerge quickly, zip over to a new location and repeat until they go blub, blub, blub.

Don't get greedy and it works well. Stay up one second too long and your mileage may vary.....

[VIIC1941]

Hello，
In stock SH4 v1.5, when I rise up my periscope, the enemy near me will see me and shot me of course.
But after I installed this mod, the enemy no longer has any responding, unless I am above -11m depth.

[propbeanie]

Welcome to SubSim VIIC1941. Is your SH4 from Steam, some other download site, or a DVD disk? Do you know what folder SH4 installed into? ie: C:\ Program Files (x86) \ Ubisoft \ Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific?... Oftentimes in Stock, the don't see you, but in FotRSU they seem to be able to see you from 18.5k, and home in directly on you...