Verdicts In?

[Red Devil]

So, those of you who have it, whats your rating out of 10?? I will wait till the price plummets.

[GoldenRivet]

Cold Waters is no Jane's 688i. For a "Simulation" of it's type everything is very simplified. I have put about 100 hours into the game and i have enjoyed it. but to enjoy it you just have to look at it for what it is and forgive it for what it is not.

you will not be manning multiple stations to assist you in your task of stalking and hunting the enemy. The whole user interface is a third person view of the sub, with a scrolling sonar display in the bottom right (which is used for the sole purpose of identifying targets and telling you they are out there) and a map on the bottom left with options for displaying speed, depth and sensor settings like raise and lower the scope, ESM mast or Radar mast.

contacts appear on the map relative to your submarine, the accuracy of their location depends on identifying them and monitoring them for long enough to have an accurate solution.

solutions are calculated for you, and represented by a small circle leading the target which represents a sort of aiming point and a small readout that indicates the accuracy of the solution (ie 60% 80% 95% etc).

there are two campaigns focused on two theoretical "world war three" style scenarios. first is a soviet push against NATO in 1968 while the US is bogged down in the quagmire of Vietnam. this campaign is the most difficult of the two with more technically limited weapons of the era requiring more focus on stealth, sneaking into an enemy's baffles and/or getting an accurate solution.

the second campaign focuses on a soviet push against NATO in the mid 1980s when a series of world events following the Reagan election push us all over the brink of war. it is the easier of the two campaigns with more capable subs, better fire and forget style weapons, and sub launched harpoons and TLAMs etc.

other than kit, and the type of targets, the two campaigns are largely identical. Missions go between intercepting replenishment ships, intercepting a large invasion force of about 8-10 ships, intercepting attack subs breaking out into (or returning from) the Atlantic, finding and sinking subs transporting special forces or sneaking into a port for a SEAL insertion or missile strike. a sort of die roll logic appears to determine which mission type you will receive. so many successful missions, and so many tons sent to the bottom results in victory. On a long enough timeline, either campaign starts to get very very repetitive.

Cold Waters, is fun to play. somehow the developers have managed to satisfy most of a Niche audience who have come to demand a great deal from any subsim title. You must agree that subsimmers are a bit spoiled following Silent Hunter III and beyond. Following our transition from 2D interfaces, and limited graphics to vibrant interiors and pretty water, We have come to expect demand shiny graphics, pinpoint historical accuracy, an entire sub pen full of different sub types with accurately rendered interiors and weapons suites. Cold Waters delivers satisfaction with very few of these elements. To make a game successful, it must be playable (ie it has to work right) and it must be fun. everything else is a bonus. Cold Waters delivers on play-ability and fun.

as for realism and difficulty, Cold Waters rests somewhere about half way in between the look and feel of "Atlantic Fleet" and the play style of "Jane's 688i"

the sub is controlled by the standard first person shooter ASWD keys for dive planes and rudder. as others have pointed out, when evading a torpedo attack against your boat, it feels more like a flight simulator than a sub sim, and this is true. but as i opened with... you have to look at it for what it is and forgive it for what it is not. Like a movie with a lot of impossible stunts and plot holes... it can be a great popcorn muncher if you suspend your disbelief. Cold Waters is no exception to that rule.

I believe that the only sub simmers who just WONT enjoy Cold Waters are the most hard core, pencil to paper, rotating plotter, long division using, captain's hat wearing players.

its $39.99 on steam right now.

if i had to pay that now, knowing what i didn't know then... i wouldn't have any trouble pulling out my card.

play-ability = 10
fun = 8
historical accuracy = 3
simulation accuracy = 3
mod-ability = 10
overall = 7.5

[Delgard]

There are days that I want one or the other, but for me it is an 8.2.

I would still buy it.

[Red Devil]

thanks

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

historical accuracy = 3

Have to take a bit of an exception to this, other than that a pretty good review.
This game is quite well based in history. While obviously portraying hypothetical events, the platforms featured in Cold Waters are exceptionally well researched and well represented for each time-period (84 and 68). While much of the sensors and fire control is simulated in a very "hands-off" sort of way, overall the game achieves the intended goal of being a command lite-sim.

The omissions that you do run into in the game (no friendly or neutral platforms, no nuclear weapons) are, for the most part, superfluous within the scope of the game. Even in the fabled "direct-support" role the 688-class boats would almost always be quite far off from the carrier battle-groups they were escorting and other than that cooperation between submarines and surface + air assets (and especially other submarines) was quite minimal / non-existant mostly to avoid blue-on-blue engagements.

An argument can be made that the successes and failures you and your submarine experience have entirely too much impact on the war (something you may well see the devs do something about in the future) however I can't really fault them for not prioritizing improvements in this area over other things like AI and UI improvements.

The biggest thing to also realize with Cold Waters is that the game is very much still under development, with campaigns and content yet to be added (Tom Clancy's SSN set during 1996 in the South China Sea) so there's going to be quite a bit more of this game down the road.

[GoldenRivet]

fair point

[Delfi]

Dangerous Waters is always an option for those who want a more hardcore sub sim.

[kilerkg]

It's a good game but for me it doesn't have enough depth.

The campaign could do with some improvements, similar to silent hunter, such as friendly and neutral ships roaming the map, to make it feel a bit more dynamic/purposeful.

The seal insertion and land attack missions are totally broken plus they cause massive frame drops (For me personally).

I would say it's around a 7 but it has potential for more as the devs are actively supporting it. I'm happy to have bought it though so hopefully we can get more sub games.

[Overkill]

Having an Sierra loom out of the dark ocean only yards from a head on collision was enough for me to get my money's worth of excitement!

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Cold Waters is no Jane's 688i. For a "Simulation" of it's type everything is very simplified. I have put about 100 hours into the game and i have enjoyed it. but to enjoy it you just have to look at it for what it is and forgive it for what it is not.

you will not be manning multiple stations to assist you in your task of stalking and hunting the enemy. The whole user interface is a third person view of the sub, with a scrolling sonar display in the bottom right (which is used for the sole purpose of identifying targets and telling you they are out there) and a map on the bottom left with options for displaying speed, depth and sensor settings like raise and lower the scope, ESM mast or Radar mast.

contacts appear on the map relative to your submarine, the accuracy of their location depends on identifying them and monitoring them for long enough to have an accurate solution.

solutions are calculated for you, and represented by a small circle leading the target which represents a sort of aiming point and a small readout that indicates the accuracy of the solution (ie 60% 80% 95% etc).

there are two campaigns focused on two theoretical "world war three" style scenarios. first is a soviet push against NATO in 1968 while the US is bogged down in the quagmire of Vietnam. this campaign is the most difficult of the two with more technically limited weapons of the era requiring more focus on stealth, sneaking into an enemy's baffles and/or getting an accurate solution.

the second campaign focuses on a soviet push against NATO in the mid 1980s when a series of world events following the Reagan election push us all over the brink of war. it is the easier of the two campaigns with more capable subs, better fire and forget style weapons, and sub launched harpoons and TLAMs etc.

other than kit, and the type of targets, the two campaigns are largely identical. Missions go between intercepting replenishment ships, intercepting a large invasion force of about 8-10 ships, intercepting attack subs breaking out into (or returning from) the Atlantic, finding and sinking subs transporting special forces or sneaking into a port for a SEAL insertion or missile strike. a sort of die roll logic appears to determine which mission type you will receive. so many successful missions, and so many tons sent to the bottom results in victory. On a long enough timeline, either campaign starts to get very very repetitive.

Cold Waters, is fun to play. somehow the developers have managed to satisfy most of a Niche audience who have come to demand a great deal from any subsim title. You must agree that subsimmers are a bit spoiled following Silent Hunter III and beyond. Following our transition from 2D interfaces, and limited graphics to vibrant interiors and pretty water, We have come to expect demand shiny graphics, pinpoint historical accuracy, an entire sub pen full of different sub types with accurately rendered interiors and weapons suites. Cold Waters delivers satisfaction with very few of these elements. To make a game successful, it must be playable (ie it has to work right) and it must be fun. everything else is a bonus. Cold Waters delivers on play-ability and fun.

as for realism and difficulty, Cold Waters rests somewhere about half way in between the look and feel of "Atlantic Fleet" and the play style of "Jane's 688i"

the sub is controlled by the standard first person shooter ASWD keys for dive planes and rudder. as others have pointed out, when evading a torpedo attack against your boat, it feels more like a flight simulator than a sub sim, and this is true. but as i opened with... you have to look at it for what it is and forgive it for what it is not. Like a movie with a lot of impossible stunts and plot holes... it can be a great popcorn muncher if you suspend your disbelief. Cold Waters is no exception to that rule.

I believe that the only sub simmers who just WONT enjoy Cold Waters are the most hard core, pencil to paper, rotating plotter, long division using, captain's hat wearing players.

its $39.99 on steam right now.

if i had to pay that now, knowing what i didn't know then... i wouldn't have any trouble pulling out my card.

play-ability = 10
fun = 8
historical accuracy = 3
simulation accuracy = 3
mod-ability = 10
overall = 7.5

Originally Posted by The Bandit

Have to take a bit of an exception to this, other than that a pretty good review.
This game is quite well based in history. While obviously portraying hypothetical events, the platforms featured in Cold Waters are exceptionally well researched and well represented for each time-period (84 and 68). While much of the sensors and fire control is simulated in a very "hands-off" sort of way, overall the game achieves the intended goal of being a command lite-sim.

The omissions that you do run into in the game (no friendly or neutral platforms, no nuclear weapons) are, for the most part, superfluous within the scope of the game. Even in the fabled "direct-support" role the 688-class boats would almost always be quite far off from the carrier battle-groups they were escorting and other than that cooperation between submarines and surface + air assets (and especially other submarines) was quite minimal / non-existant mostly to avoid blue-on-blue engagements.

An argument can be made that the successes and failures you and your submarine experience have entirely too much impact on the war (something you may well see the devs do something about in the future) however I can't really fault them for not prioritizing improvements in this area over other things like AI and UI improvements.

The biggest thing to also realize with Cold Waters is that the game is very much still under development, with campaigns and content yet to be added (Tom Clancy's SSN set during 1996 in the South China Sea) so there's going to be quite a bit more of this game down the road.

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

fair point

What a nice, intelligent, civil, analytical and informative, and well written dissertation on the pros and cons of the still developing game (as I now get out my wallet!)at ! This is the discussion type I really like to see more of! to both of you!