LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod

[Adm. Ahab]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

No, they overwrite the same files. You can have one or the other, not both.

Thats what I thought....

Thanks

[Neutrino 123]

I'm not sure if the following is only for this mod, but I've noticed that when plotting the waypoints for LAMs, the missile seems to hit the ground slightly after the finalwaypoint. This usually isn't a big problem with large targets, but if you want to take out a SAM site, it could have a signifigant impact (compounded by the fact that the missile is usually no longer pointed directly at the target if you plot the final waypoint in front of the target and then move the sub). I've noticed this effect with both the TLAM and the SS-N-27 LAM.

[Amizaur]

I've noticed this when launching TLAMs in SC for the first time, and then in DW too I think they always flew little too far, even back in Sub Command. This could be compensated though within doctrine I think. Anybody else cares that they are overshooting ?

[TLAM Strike]

There seems to be a problem with the SS-N-27 ASM. On AI subs (I saw this with one of the PLAN Kilo Imps) they will enable the missile at the exact location of the ship resulting in the Supersonic Kill Stage to pass over head.

Could the AI be given a doctrine that forces them to remove 1 mile from its RTE on the SS-N-27?

[LuftWolf]

TLAM, Amizaur has done more testing than me on this, but he says that they enable them generally correctly for short and medium ranges.

It is possible that your AI kilo just had a bad solution on the ship or he fired it under its minimum range.

I will do some testing today/morrow.

[Amizaur]

TLAM Strike - I'll check this again, just yesterday I noticed possible bug in last version of SS-N-27 doctrine. So I'll take a look at activation point when fired by AI too. I tested them extensively launching from NAV screen to see where will computer place enable point, also I calculated where this point should be and all worked, but of course there still can be errors so thanks for info !

[LuftWolf]

Ok based on your feedback and the further brainstorming of Amizaur and me, here are the things that are being considered for v1.03. First, thanks a lot for using the mod!

Fixes-

missile.txt doctrine-Amizaur has determined that neither his nor the stock version function correctly. I believe he is working on fixing it.

ss-n-27 doctrines-Amizaur has recently posted that he may have found a bug, so he may fix this and/or expand the missile's function.

readme-I will correct the section in the readme regarding missile launches and TIW warnings, with credits going to Bellman for pointing it out and Fish for confirming it over a LAN.

Additional Mods/Changes

UGST- Will be given 27nm range. Credits to Bellman for bullying me into it. You bad bad man. :P :rotfl:

ADCAP- Speed will be increased to 60kts.

Wakehoming torpedos- I am considering removing all ASW capabilites from all wakehoming torpedos (and setting the max depth of the 65-76 to -10m). I am open to suggestions about this, as I can't find out how wakehomers actually work. Amizaur believes it is oxygen bubbles left in the water by surface ships, meaning it wouldn't work against subs, and I am inclined to believe him as usual. I have started a poll so you guys can give an answer.

Torpedo Seekers- Will be adjusted to realistic levels, paying attention to reduce the cone of subrocs and older torpedos.

Submarine Sound Levels- Periscope Depth has sent me a modded db with passive noise levels changed for various subs. I have wanted to change these as well, so in consultation with Amizaur, the three of us will play around with changing them to reflect reasonably realistic levels, whatever that means (I'm not really sure how quiet anything is, to be honest, so I'll have to trust you guys).

On that tip, if any of you have specific requests about changing certain subs to certain levels or anything else you'd like to see in the mod in general, let us know here in this thread.

[Mau]

What about the wind speed and direction.

Talked with Amizaur couple weeks ago, and the countermeasures with the FFG are showing that the wind is not modeled properly (it is actually going in the opposite direction and the speed is not very effective to move the chaffs/flares away from the ship

[LuftWolf]

Those are environmental issues and, as far as I know, out of the range of our ability to modify, but not SCS.

We can, however, increase the effectiveness of Chaff and Flare in the database.

Thanks for bringing this up, Mau.

[OlegM]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

UGST- Will be given 27nm range. Credits to Bellman for bullying me into it. You bad bad man. :P :rotfl:

...snip...

I have started a poll so you guys can give an answer.

...snip...

(I'm not really sure how quiet anything is, to be honest, so I'll have to trust you guys).

...snip...

if any of you have specific requests about changing certain subs to certain levels or anything else you'd like to see in the mod in general, let us know here in this thread.

I see the quoted parts above as very bad news. Will this be "poll-based" mod or "whoever bullies the most on the board will get his way" mod?

Since DWX is taking aeons to materialize, I downloaded your mod and like it so far. I must admit I installed only the doctrine modifications, not the database, exactly for the reason outlined above - I think database changes are too much influenced by whatever is posted on the board, not on any verifiable and realistic data. Prove me wrong :|\

Oleg

[LuftWolf]

Thank your for taking writing that. I like that kind of feedback.

I'm looking for information from the community about what they believe to be the truth and what they would like to see in the mod because they are going to be the ones using it. I am specifically not just changing stuff and asking you guys to trust me, because I really don't know.

What I do know, is how to do research. Without getting into it, you can either believe me or not. When I read something on the forum, I can pretty much figure out what's good and what's not, I think. Frankly, I trust Amizaur's opinion, Bill's, Fish, Takeda, TLAM, OneShot, and a few others. So if they say something, forgive me if I take it as true.

[LuftWolf]

Ok, in terms of decoys I have done the following so far:

Launched anti-torpedo CM's active and passive have had their effectiveness reduced to 30% in terms of attracting torpedos.

Anti-missle countermeasures chaff and flare have had their effectiveness increased to 40%.

You can let me know how to tweak this as you think.

I've also changed the db flags and mission priorites for wakehomers so the AI won't them at properly identified subs. You can still fire them to run deep if you want, to attack subs, either with a snapshot or by reclassifying the target as surface.

I've also implimented all the dicussed parameter stuff with the ADCAP (60 kts) and the UGST (27nm).

[Amizaur]

I see that my SS-N-27 doctrine indeed do not work correctly now, enable point is bugged, don't know when this happened :hmm: I'll try to find the error tomorrow.
Tested that max effective depth of 53-65K wakehomer is 15m. At 15m they work fine, at 16m they don't detect wakes of surface ships anymore.
So if you were limiting 65cm run depth you could limit it to 15m not 10 :-)

Just tested small modification of torpedo doctrine that prevents AI units from sinking friendly surface units with ASW torpedos. If air-dropped torp is detected, ceiling is set to 150ft inside of doctrine. Surface units are safe.
Also tommorrow I'll test little more complicated modification that prevents human player from surfacing to avoid being sunk by AI ASW torpedos - he may think that they don't get him on the surface. If an AI air-dropped torpedo detects Submarine the ceiling is reset to -2ft to allow the atttack. Surface ships would be still safe, but surfaced submarines not :-). This mod will affect only AI launched torpedos, player launched would be unaffected. If it's human-player weapon, the -150ft setting would be overwritten by ceiling value set by player.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Amizaur

I see that my SS-N-27 doctrine indeed do not work correctly now, enable point is bugged, don't know when this happened :hmm: I'll try to find the error tomorrow.
Tested that max effective depth of 53-65K wakehomer is 15m. At 15m they work fine, at 16m they don't detect wakes of surface ships anymore.
So if you were limiting 65cm run depth you could limit it to 15m not 10 :-)

I have the current release of this mod and I scored a Kill on a Spruance class DD with a 53-65K(Export) with its depth set for 60m.

Or are you using the verson that has yet to be released?

[Bellman]

Amizaur Aug 24th wrote :-

.....to use my torpedo doctrines with speed/depth/range depending on each other and we will have realistic speed/range combinations

Also:-

.....we could give to ADCAP max speed of 60kts - it's credited to be capable of even more (some sources say 11-14nm at 65kts) but 60kts for sure :-).

Luftwolf Aug 25th wrote :-

ADCAP- Speed will be increased to 60kts..

So recapping and not bullying ( )
The Adcap will have a max. speed of 60 kts., but realisticaly this top speed will result in a lower range of ? 15 nm, ? Or what ?

Wakehomeing - 65s effective only against surfaced subs or near surface cavitators ?

Are the new DW torp wider arc snake search patterns more at fault than the cone arcs ?