General Attack plotting for Dummies

ChrisPhoenix · 03-04-19, 11:36 AM

Dear Subsim community,

I recently bought Silent Hunter 5 and started playing with TWOS. I'm playing without real navigation simply because i like to set waypoints but everything else is set to realistic. My main problem now is simply the missing map symbols. Years ago i attempted to play Silent Hunter 3 like this but found myself unable to do so, so i turned the symbols back on. But now i just want to improve and to learn.
In SH3 i just looked at my map, drew the lines and intercepted the ship. Now Dieter says "Smoke on the Horizon" and i just can not figure out how to get its exact course and position. Could you guys tell me which methods and tactics you use to find that out?
What i want is simply: figure out the ships heading, get myself at 90 degrees at ca 1000-2000 meters away, and still have enough time to identify the ship and take a look at its flag, which is sometimes hard enough at nighttimes. I tried to figure out the RAOBF but most of the time the Ship is just to far away and too tiny to make any useful measurements with it. So: How do you guys do it?

Thanks in advance!

bstanko6 · 03-04-19, 12:15 PM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=240116

abaileyatd · 03-04-19, 01:30 PM

RAOBF only really becomes useful under 4000 meters or so (when the target is large enough to accurately measure), however I did use it to hit a convoy target 6500 meters out with 2 torpedoes just yesterday- I misjudged when to submerge for my attack and found myself further out than I had wanted. The convoy was too heavily escorted to surface or increase speed. Of course I fired 4 torpedoes at 2 targets, and one target was a complete miss. YMMV

Remember your best attacks will be from 500-1500 meters. Otherwise you must observe (ask your watch officer for nearest visual sighting or use your scope to get bearing and distance) and plot on the map. Then you can easily deduce course, AOB and speed from the plot.

I play 100% with real navigation and honestly I have abandoned the plot and intercept method (which I used in SH3 GWX 100% realism to great success). I find that the extra layer of keeping track of your own boat's position is cumbersome for most contacts now.

I rely on RAOBF almost exclusively now. Think of it like this, with RAOBF you can just make broad visual observations (ship heading from my left to right, approaching from ahead or behind, etc), and work your way closer into an attack position. As you line up for an ideally sub 2000 meter shot you can whip up your RAOBF take a couple quick measurements, and LOS! It really works, I'm having tremendous success 100% TWOS.

PS I fire 2 torps at every ship that is over 4 or 5000 tons, to heck with "one torp one ship", I'm coming home with tonnage!

ChrisPhoenix · 03-04-19, 02:26 PM

@bstanko6 thanks for your tutorials. Watching through them right now.

@abaileyatd: And how do you approach? Just dive and run towards the target until it is close enough? Wouldn't that be too slow? And if i approach on the surface i might be spotted and then the ship will zigzag or change course completely. My watch officer tends to talk some bs is what i learned so far. i tried to plot a course once from what he told me. the direction was actually kind of accurate from what i saw but the distance was way off. It passed me by far away even tho i set myself up for 1000m at 90 deg.

bstanko6 · 03-04-19, 02:56 PM

There are many factors to setting up approach. Your main goal is to stay on the surface and overtake the target. Preferably at night. Harder in the day.

abaileyatd · 03-04-19, 10:59 PM

After a brief period of observation you should be able to determine if the target is approaching or moving away from you, and also generally which direction it is heading. I approach first by assuming a generally parallel course, keeping myself at the edge of whatever visual distance I'm comfortable with. Adjust overtime to keep your target(s) at the edge of your view. U-boat commanders handbook recommends keeping only the top of the masts in view when overhauling during the day, perhaps a bit closer at night. SH3 GWX was very forgiving in this aspect IMO- SH5 TWOS is not. Seriously- during the daytime keep the masts barely showing if you want to be 100% safe. This is early war also, with radar adjust accordingly.

Once I "feel" I'm far enough ahead, I turn in- generally gradually, towards a 90 degree intercept (approximate at first, adjusted as necessary as the target(s) approach, although overhauling generally gives me a pretty good idea of course and even a relative speed estimation). When the nearest ship gets close enough to make me uncomfortable, I go to periscope depth, rig for silent running and hope I can make the distance. Ideally you arrive within 2000m at a 90 degree AOB. As they approach closely, you can use the RAOBF to determine accurate ranges, AOB and if necessary speed. Adjust TDC from your initial estimates to these values and go to town. This is for convoys. Single targets the idea is similar but you may be more brash as circumstances apply.

When at periscope depth, keep your speed down, stay silent and again as per Uboat commander's handbook practice judicious use of periscope (which is kept partially awash when exposed), especially within 4000 meters. TWOS is again very uncompromising about this and I find that my periscope usage must be the most conservative it has ever been in this game and modpack. Following the aforementioned rules works pretty well, but don't be surprised to be spotted on the final attack, just hope you are close and your TDC values are accurate.

As always, immediately after the attack begin appropriate evasion tactics.

Note: this is a conservative tactic, but one that is successful for me. Uboat attacks are more art than science and as always you must be ready to adapt and act more aggressively when the opportunity presents itself.

I also forgot to mention that IDing your target is essential for RAOBF usage, and for me is truly the most challenging aspect. Begin IDing as early as possible, even over the horizon you can get a general idea of ship class, and with mast layouts and funnel counts begin to narrow it down considerably. Continue to verify your ID until the final attack. If you cannot get a solid ID, you must at least determine class of ship, hopefully narrow it to a handful at least, and look at lengths and mast heights and just try to average it or best guess. I've had success even with flimsy IDs by cutting the difference, getting close and praying!

ChrisPhoenix · 03-05-19, 04:36 AM

Thank you very much. I will try my best to follow your instructions. Probably will take me a while to get used to the enemy beeing so intelligent. I only played SH3 vanilla before and getting spotted was never a real problem early in the war. Ships were generally pretty blind, even at daytime.

03-04-19, 11:36 AM	#1
ChrisPhoenix Bosun Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 62 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	General Attack plotting for Dummies Dear Subsim community, I recently bought Silent Hunter 5 and started playing with TWOS. I'm playing without real navigation simply because i like to set waypoints but everything else is set to realistic. My main problem now is simply the missing map symbols. Years ago i attempted to play Silent Hunter 3 like this but found myself unable to do so, so i turned the symbols back on. But now i just want to improve and to learn. In SH3 i just looked at my map, drew the lines and intercepted the ship. Now Dieter says "Smoke on the Horizon" and i just can not figure out how to get its exact course and position. Could you guys tell me which methods and tactics you use to find that out? What i want is simply: figure out the ships heading, get myself at 90 degrees at ca 1000-2000 meters away, and still have enough time to identify the ship and take a look at its flag, which is sometimes hard enough at nighttimes. I tried to figure out the RAOBF but most of the time the Ship is just to far away and too tiny to make any useful measurements with it. So: How do you guys do it? Thanks in advance!

03-04-19, 10:59 PM	#6
abaileyatd Sailor man Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 49 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	After a brief period of observation you should be able to determine if the target is approaching or moving away from you, and also generally which direction it is heading. I approach first by assuming a generally parallel course, keeping myself at the edge of whatever visual distance I'm comfortable with. Adjust overtime to keep your target(s) at the edge of your view. U-boat commanders handbook recommends keeping only the top of the masts in view when overhauling during the day, perhaps a bit closer at night. SH3 GWX was very forgiving in this aspect IMO- SH5 TWOS is not. Seriously- during the daytime keep the masts barely showing if you want to be 100% safe. This is early war also, with radar adjust accordingly. Once I "feel" I'm far enough ahead, I turn in- generally gradually, towards a 90 degree intercept (approximate at first, adjusted as necessary as the target(s) approach, although overhauling generally gives me a pretty good idea of course and even a relative speed estimation). When the nearest ship gets close enough to make me uncomfortable, I go to periscope depth, rig for silent running and hope I can make the distance. Ideally you arrive within 2000m at a 90 degree AOB. As they approach closely, you can use the RAOBF to determine accurate ranges, AOB and if necessary speed. Adjust TDC from your initial estimates to these values and go to town. This is for convoys. Single targets the idea is similar but you may be more brash as circumstances apply. When at periscope depth, keep your speed down, stay silent and again as per Uboat commander's handbook practice judicious use of periscope (which is kept partially awash when exposed), especially within 4000 meters. TWOS is again very uncompromising about this and I find that my periscope usage must be the most conservative it has ever been in this game and modpack. Following the aforementioned rules works pretty well, but don't be surprised to be spotted on the final attack, just hope you are close and your TDC values are accurate. As always, immediately after the attack begin appropriate evasion tactics. Note: this is a conservative tactic, but one that is successful for me. Uboat attacks are more art than science and as always you must be ready to adapt and act more aggressively when the opportunity presents itself. I also forgot to mention that IDing your target is essential for RAOBF usage, and for me is truly the most challenging aspect. Begin IDing as early as possible, even over the horizon you can get a general idea of ship class, and with mast layouts and funnel counts begin to narrow it down considerably. Continue to verify your ID until the final attack. If you cannot get a solid ID, you must at least determine class of ship, hopefully narrow it to a handful at least, and look at lengths and mast heights and just try to average it or best guess. I've had success even with flimsy IDs by cutting the difference, getting close and praying! Last edited by abaileyatd; 03-04-19 at 11:18 PM.

03-04-19, 12:15 PM	#2
bstanko6 Admiral Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Murwik Naval Academy Posts: 2,122 Downloads: 390 Uploads: 13	http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=240116

03-04-19, 01:30 PM	#3
abaileyatd Sailor man Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 49 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	RAOBF only really becomes useful under 4000 meters or so (when the target is large enough to accurately measure), however I did use it to hit a convoy target 6500 meters out with 2 torpedoes just yesterday- I misjudged when to submerge for my attack and found myself further out than I had wanted. The convoy was too heavily escorted to surface or increase speed. Of course I fired 4 torpedoes at 2 targets, and one target was a complete miss. YMMV Remember your best attacks will be from 500-1500 meters. Otherwise you must observe (ask your watch officer for nearest visual sighting or use your scope to get bearing and distance) and plot on the map. Then you can easily deduce course, AOB and speed from the plot. I play 100% with real navigation and honestly I have abandoned the plot and intercept method (which I used in SH3 GWX 100% realism to great success). I find that the extra layer of keeping track of your own boat's position is cumbersome for most contacts now. I rely on RAOBF almost exclusively now. Think of it like this, with RAOBF you can just make broad visual observations (ship heading from my left to right, approaching from ahead or behind, etc), and work your way closer into an attack position. As you line up for an ideally sub 2000 meter shot you can whip up your RAOBF take a couple quick measurements, and LOS! It really works, I'm having tremendous success 100% TWOS. PS I fire 2 torps at every ship that is over 4 or 5000 tons, to heck with "one torp one ship", I'm coming home with tonnage!

03-04-19, 02:26 PM	#4
ChrisPhoenix Bosun Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 62 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	@bstanko6 thanks for your tutorials. Watching through them right now. @abaileyatd: And how do you approach? Just dive and run towards the target until it is close enough? Wouldn't that be too slow? And if i approach on the surface i might be spotted and then the ship will zigzag or change course completely. My watch officer tends to talk some bs is what i learned so far. i tried to plot a course once from what he told me. the direction was actually kind of accurate from what i saw but the distance was way off. It passed me by far away even tho i set myself up for 1000m at 90 deg.

03-04-19, 02:56 PM	#5
bstanko6 Admiral Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Murwik Naval Academy Posts: 2,122 Downloads: 390 Uploads: 13	There are many factors to setting up approach. Your main goal is to stay on the surface and overtake the target. Preferably at night. Harder in the day.

03-05-19, 04:36 AM	#7
ChrisPhoenix Bosun Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 62 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Thank you very much. I will try my best to follow your instructions. Probably will take me a while to get used to the enemy beeing so intelligent. I only played SH3 vanilla before and getting spotted was never a real problem early in the war. Ships were generally pretty blind, even at daytime.