Russian Nuclear Bombers over Guam

[Jimbuna]

Best courseof action me thinks

[Stealhead]

I have heard the "Lawn Dart" nickname for the F-16 before.I have also heard a few places that "lead sled" was first used by some P-40 pilots in reference to its average performance in level flight.(Soviet Lend Lease P-40/Kittyhawk equipped squadrons sometimes had an anchor painted on the tail.)

@ Steve I said that you where some what wrong because you did not list the currently used vernacular actually served in an A-10 squadron in the mid 90's so the term is at least 20 years old.

I am not 100% sure but I think Hog may have originally been coined by pilots of other Air Force aircraft to be insulting (warthog sounds aggressive) in stead A-10 pilots and crews embraced the Hog.

I am not sure but it seems at least since the F-84 that the term hog has been used with ground attack aircraft because during Vietnam the UH-1Bs that where converted to gunships where called "Huey Hogs" I think the Navy called their UH-1C "Huey Hogs" as well.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

@ Steve I said that you where some what wrong because you did not list the currently used vernacular actually served in an A-10 squadron in the mid 90's so the term is at least 20 years old.

And I said . That was the important part.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As the second pilot was ordered to stand down while they tried to figure out what the problem was, somebody noticed that the civilians had all disappeared.

I think it was the Germans that called the F-104 the Tent Peg, there was also the common conversation of:

Q: "What's the cheapest way to get an F-104?"
A: "Buy a plot of land and wait."

That being said though many Luftwaffe pilots swore by it, and some at it, and if you wanted to go in a straight line very very fast it did its job very well...just don't try to turn it...


The story about the F-84 (hilarious btw ) reminds me of an incident a bit closer to home, about five miles close. This was back when we were developing Blue Danube I think, and the sea just off Orford Ness was being used as a test range for dropping a dummy version of it by a Valiant bomber I think, probably from RAF Barnham. Well, the aircraft came over the target and pressed the button to drop the bomb...and nothing happened. So the mission was aborted and the aircraft returned to base, when it got there they had to prise the bomb bay doors open because they had gotten jammed. When the doors finally came open, the dummy bomb fell out onto the ground. Had it been the real thing, chances are it would have detonated as the aircraft came in to land, having been activated on the drop and then sensing the barometric pressure changes.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think it was the Germans that called the F-104 the Tent Peg, there was also the common conversation of:

Q: "What's the cheapest way to get an F-104?"
A: "Buy a plot of land and wait."

That being said though many Luftwaffe pilots swore by it, and some at it, and if you wanted to go in a straight line very very fast it did its job very well...just don't try to turn it...


The story about the F-84 (hilarious btw ) reminds me of an incident a bit closer to home, about five miles close. This was back when we were developing Blue Danube I think, and the sea just off Orford Ness was being used as a test range for dropping a dummy version of it by a Valiant bomber I think, probably from RAF Barnham. Well, the aircraft came over the target and pressed the button to drop the bomb...and nothing happened. So the mission was aborted and the aircraft returned to base, when it got there they had to prise the bomb bay doors open because they had gotten jammed. When the doors finally came open, the dummy bomb fell out onto the ground. Had it been the real thing, chances are it would have detonated as the aircraft came in to land, having been activated on the drop and then sensing the barometric pressure changes.

I know for a fact that Eric Hartman hated the F-104 and felt it was too dangerous to pilots.

From Wikipedia:I read this information in a book some time back about Luftwaffe aces but this outlines his feelings.

"In 1956, Hartmann joined the newly established West German Luftwaffe in the Bundeswehr, and became the first Geschwaderkommodore of Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen". Hartmann resigned early from the Bundeswehr in 1970, largely due to his opposition to the F-104 Starfighter deployment in the Luftwaffe and the resulting clashes with his superiors over this issue. He was later involved in flight training."

"Hartmann considered the F-104 a fundamentally flawed and unsafe aircraft and strongly opposed its adoption by the Luftwaffe. Although events subsequently validated his low opinion of the aircraft (282 crashes and 115 German pilots killed on the F-104 in non-combat missions, along with allegations of bribes culminating in the Lockheed scandal), Hartmann's outspoken criticism proved unpopular with his superiors. General Werner Panitzki, successor to General Josef Kammhuber as Inspekteur der Luftwaffe, said, "Erich is a good pilot, but not a good officer." Hartmann was forced into early retirement in 1970."

I would trust his judgement when considering that his greatest pride was not being the highest scoring ace but that no wing man that flew with him was ever killed by the enemy showing that he cared more about his men than he did glory.

The F-104 was a mediocre design at best the USAF was very displeased with its performance in service.The only reason so many NATO air forces got stuck with the F-104 was due more to the fact that nothing else was available that was cost effective.

Interesting fact: Some of the first production batch of Starfighters had downwards firing ejection seats there was a panel below the seat that blew out allowing the seat and pilot pass through.They did this over concerns that at certain speeds the seat would not be able to clear the "T" tail in time all export F-104s had upwards firing Martin-Bakers.Several USAF pilots died because they ejected at too low of altitude.The B-52 had downwards firing seats for the navigator/bombardier and the weapons officer and the tail gunner in the BUFFs that had a manned turret his section came off and then he simply egressed from it manually.

Of course there was also the "capsule" ejection seat concept the B-58 had a capsule that only went around the seat and pilot and the F-111 the entire cockpit actually ejects with the canopy still in place a good concept in theory but very heavy and in enemy territory the crew would receive no benefit of shelter provided.With the B-58 the capsule was only supposed to protect the pilot at supersonic speeds this idea fell out of favor when it was discovered that the likely hood a a crew attempting to eject at supersonic speeds was so low that it was not worth planning for.Which is why export F-104s did not have a the downwards seats by the mid 60's even it was clear that designing for supersonic ejection was pointless.

I wonder if ejecting upwards compresses the spine and actually makes the person shorter would you become slightly taller ejecting straight downwards.