What a Dumpster Fire!

L16Electech · 12-16-17, 05:44 AM

Okay, so I've paid my money, downloaded and played this game for a month.

full disclosure: I'm a U.S. Submarine Force veteran of the period portrayed (1984).

This game has so much wrong I can't even start........

Perhaps when I'm more calm I'll come back and enumerate.

For now, let's start with the fact that when I'm being pinged by Soviet surface units I can't get either their identity, nor their position.

Also, my sonar shack appears to be occupied by retards.

ETR3(SS) · 12-16-17, 12:31 PM

How much of what is wrong is still classified? Granted that they got some things wrong but they actively work to improve the game and listen to their player base without caving to their every demand. I've been with it pretty much since release and much has improved. Now something to consider is that we aren't actually out in the North Atlantic with our own fast boat, it's a game and therefore limited by what the game engine can do and portray.

As far as active intercept sensors go, we should be getting class data based off of that alone and bearing data as well. Radar signatures and sonar frequencies are very telltale of the platform.

Capt.Hunt · 12-16-17, 02:42 PM

yeah, it does bug me that the Russians can ping me all they want and all I get is a bearing marker. The sonar operator should be marking those as contacts if they aren't already known.

GoldenRivet · 12-16-17, 07:15 PM

its been reduced to a torpedo dodging simulator.

completely ridiculous that there would be that many torpedoes in the water in a single engagement. in the event that i am detected, it is instantly a race for survival to evade - now a record twenty (20) torpedoes in the water. most of "my" kills are just from racing around causing the AI to friendly fire one another out of the water.

stupid

im just frustrated to the point that im nearly done here. The fun is just gone from it.

Delgard · 12-16-17, 07:43 PM

Yep, I suspected that my sonar operators were former Army now working as contractors.

Captain Haddock · 12-17-17, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

its been reduced to a torpedo dodging simulator.

completely ridiculous that there would be that many torpedoes in the water in a single engagement. in the event that i am detected, it is instantly a race for survival to evade - now a record twenty (20) torpedoes in the water. most of "my" kills are just from racing around causing the AI to friendly fire one another out of the water.

stupid

im just frustrated to the point that im nearly done here. The fun is just gone from it.

I think like any updates it takes a while to work out the best way to approach the in game missions. Golden Rivet, have you tried an offset attack, don't fire directly at the contacts, fire at an angle and bring your torpedo in from the beam, quarter or stern if possible, that way any STWS attack will go down the bearing from where the torpedo came, this allows you to move out of range of the seeker heads and evade the swarm, also always have a MOSS available. This works for me most of the time, hope this helps.

subcritical · 12-17-17, 10:31 AM

Quick question, is the issue using the released Cold Waters or the beta version?

I see the behavior you mention in the beta and hope they calm that down a bit for the release version. I can't even go 'all stop' 'ultra quite' at the beginning of a mission and have multiple transients, torpedos and missiles coming my way! Its like I'm a fish in a barrel. Maybe somewhere in the middle of the release and current beta would be much better.

Julhelm · 12-17-17, 11:37 AM

Is this in campaign missions or single missions and using which difficulty?

subcritical · 12-17-17, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Is this in campaign missions or single missions and using which difficulty?

Single mission, Realistic difficulty, Stalking the Red Bear Mission. I haven't tried the campaign modes in the beta, yet!

SiegDerMaus · 12-17-17, 04:30 PM

Enemy detection also seems far too good. I play on realistic, and if I send out one active sonar ping, or launch one torpedo, I'm very likely to get one of those cruise missile launched torpedoes exactly on my position. Whereas if the reds use active sonar or launch a weapon, all I get is a bearing. I thought NATO was supposed to have better passive sonar than those guys.

Davy Jones · 12-17-17, 04:51 PM

Yeah, game could use some help as far as establishing / identifying contacts is concerned. Should be able to identify a new contact (or refresh an old contact) and bearing based on (their) active sonar and radar emissions as well as generate a type classification.

Haven't actively emitted (radar or sonar) yet, or found the ESM mast all that useful (so far).

Hopefully the developers are listening...

Even so, 1.09b is a significant upgrade and am glad to see it. Played 1.08c on realistic and thought it was too much like shooting fish in a barrel (esp. the 1984 missions and campaign). 1.09b on realistic is far more challenging.

Had a couple of missions (1984 campaign) where I've been attacked immediately after spawning into the tactical map. Survived one (close aboard, single Kilo), but not the the other (two escorts launched torps and RBUs from less than 10K, one helo launched from about 4-5K, and another helo dropped less than 1K away, all in less than 2 minutes... that was quick).

But, other than those two instances, am not finding counter-fire a terrible problem, if my attack is well planned and executed. Have killed several capable opponents without being fired upon... And, even if the plan falls apart (for whatever reason), evading the counter-fire hasn't proven to be a serious problem, just a consistent one.

Once counter-fire appeared to be wire-guided by a Kilo (three torps in a tight group (rather than a spread) which tracked an abeam course at 25kts). After a pursuing MK48 put an end to the Kilo the tracking stopped, the torps went active (about 4-5K away) and began a snake pattern target search. It was close.

And that's what I like about this update -- they shoot back. Early and often.

Before the update, used a Skipjack class boat to help even the odds (both 68 and 84 campaigns). And now? The Narwhal and tactics -- shadowing a whale or merchant vessel as cover, running silent, working the layer, maneuvering for position -- it's much more enjoyable.

Haven't run into the blue screen of death or other issues discussed in various threads. Did have 1.09b freeze when trying to load a saved 68 campaign that used mods (deleted the 1.08c override folder prior to the upgrade). All in all, the update is very stable on my Mac. Will try some mods, but want finish a vanilla 84 campaign first.

GoldenRivet · 12-17-17, 07:17 PM

i have not had much trouble in the single missions unless there are a lot of enemy ships that start shooting. when its one or two ships in the mission its not a big deal.

I run into issues more in the campaign when there are several escorts with a sub or two, torpedoes everywhere and always at least one or two get killed by their own friendly fire.

a recommendation i would make is when the mission is about to start and you have the "review XO orders option" you should be able to select a speed and a depth from there that you will start the mission out with.

that way it doesnt spawn you running 20 knots at 150 ft and your instantly a target

Julhelm · 12-17-17, 08:26 PM

The speed you transit with on the strategic map determines the starting speed/depth in the encounter:

Left button, flank = 20kts at 600 ft
Right button, cruise = 10kts at 250 ft
No button, drifting = 5kts at 50 ft

So you want to perform your end-arounds in the strategic map layer by letting them come to you. This puts you into a more advantageous starting position.

GoldenRivet · 12-18-17, 12:26 AM

That’s true. But I have noticed times in the campaign that the next mission started with me at the same speed the last mission ended even though a slower or higher speed is shown to be ordered, the actual speed is different.

For example, mission starts, I’m running 2 knots, but 20/600 is ordered. Or vice versa. Always seems to be when my last speed was something other than a multiple of 5. Like 2 kts 8 kts 12 kts etc

Another issue with speed, if I order two knots, the sonar display background scroll becomes very clear obviously because there is less own ship noise... if I then click ultra quiet... speed stays at 2 kts but background scrolling noise in sonar display goes back to that if a higher own ship sound made at 5 kts

12-16-17, 05:44 AM	#1
L16Electech Nub Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 4 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	What a Dumpster Fire! Okay, so I've paid my money, downloaded and played this game for a month. full disclosure: I'm a U.S. Submarine Force veteran of the period portrayed (1984). This game has so much wrong I can't even start........ Perhaps when I'm more calm I'll come back and enumerate. For now, let's start with the fact that when I'm being pinged by Soviet surface units I can't get either their identity, nor their position. Also, my sonar shack appears to be occupied by retards.

12-16-17, 12:31 PM	#2
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	How much of what is wrong is still classified? Granted that they got some things wrong but they actively work to improve the game and listen to their player base without caving to their every demand. I've been with it pretty much since release and much has improved. Now something to consider is that we aren't actually out in the North Atlantic with our own fast boat, it's a game and therefore limited by what the game engine can do and portray. As far as active intercept sensors go, we should be getting class data based off of that alone and bearing data as well. Radar signatures and sonar frequencies are very telltale of the platform. __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

12-16-17, 07:15 PM	#4
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,711 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	its been reduced to a torpedo dodging simulator. completely ridiculous that there would be that many torpedoes in the water in a single engagement. in the event that i am detected, it is instantly a race for survival to evade - now a record twenty (20) torpedoes in the water. most of "my" kills are just from racing around causing the AI to friendly fire one another out of the water. stupid im just frustrated to the point that im nearly done here. The fun is just gone from it. __________________

12-17-17, 04:51 PM	#11
Davy Jones Nub Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 3 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Yeah, game could use some help as far as establishing / identifying contacts is concerned. Should be able to identify a new contact (or refresh an old contact) and bearing based on (their) active sonar and radar emissions as well as generate a type classification. Haven't actively emitted (radar or sonar) yet, or found the ESM mast all that useful (so far). Hopefully the developers are listening... Even so, 1.09b is a significant upgrade and am glad to see it. Played 1.08c on realistic and thought it was too much like shooting fish in a barrel (esp. the 1984 missions and campaign). 1.09b on realistic is far more challenging. Had a couple of missions (1984 campaign) where I've been attacked immediately after spawning into the tactical map. Survived one (close aboard, single Kilo), but not the the other (two escorts launched torps and RBUs from less than 10K, one helo launched from about 4-5K, and another helo dropped less than 1K away, all in less than 2 minutes... that was quick). But, other than those two instances, am not finding counter-fire a terrible problem, if my attack is well planned and executed. Have killed several capable opponents without being fired upon... And, even if the plan falls apart (for whatever reason), evading the counter-fire hasn't proven to be a serious problem, just a consistent one. Once counter-fire appeared to be wire-guided by a Kilo (three torps in a tight group (rather than a spread) which tracked an abeam course at 25kts). After a pursuing MK48 put an end to the Kilo the tracking stopped, the torps went active (about 4-5K away) and began a snake pattern target search. It was close. And that's what I like about this update -- they shoot back. Early and often. Before the update, used a Skipjack class boat to help even the odds (both 68 and 84 campaigns). And now? The Narwhal and tactics -- shadowing a whale or merchant vessel as cover, running silent, working the layer, maneuvering for position -- it's much more enjoyable. Haven't run into the blue screen of death or other issues discussed in various threads. Did have 1.09b freeze when trying to load a saved 68 campaign that used mods (deleted the 1.08c override folder prior to the upgrade). All in all, the update is very stable on my Mac. Will try some mods, but want finish a vanilla 84 campaign first. __________________ Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead!

12-17-17, 07:17 PM	#12
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,711 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i have not had much trouble in the single missions unless there are a lot of enemy ships that start shooting. when its one or two ships in the mission its not a big deal. I run into issues more in the campaign when there are several escorts with a sub or two, torpedoes everywhere and always at least one or two get killed by their own friendly fire. a recommendation i would make is when the mission is about to start and you have the "review XO orders option" you should be able to select a speed and a depth from there that you will start the mission out with. that way it doesnt spawn you running 20 knots at 150 ft and your instantly a target __________________

12-16-17, 02:42 PM	#3
Capt.Hunt Loader Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 90 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	yeah, it does bug me that the Russians can ping me all they want and all I get is a bearing marker. The sonar operator should be marking those as contacts if they aren't already known.

12-16-17, 07:43 PM	#5
Delgard Skipper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: AZ & DC Posts: 487 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	Yep, I suspected that my sonar operators were former Army now working as contractors.

12-17-17, 10:31 AM	#7
subcritical Watch Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Right here Posts: 26 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Quick question, is the issue using the released Cold Waters or the beta version? I see the behavior you mention in the beta and hope they calm that down a bit for the release version. I can't even go 'all stop' 'ultra quite' at the beginning of a mission and have multiple transients, torpedos and missiles coming my way! Its like I'm a fish in a barrel. Maybe somewhere in the middle of the release and current beta would be much better.

12-17-17, 11:37 AM	#8
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Is this in campaign missions or single missions and using which difficulty?

12-17-17, 04:30 PM	#10
SiegDerMaus Edgerunner Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: United States Posts: 32 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Enemy detection also seems far too good. I play on realistic, and if I send out one active sonar ping, or launch one torpedo, I'm very likely to get one of those cruise missile launched torpedoes exactly on my position. Whereas if the reds use active sonar or launch a weapon, all I get is a bearing. I thought NATO was supposed to have better passive sonar than those guys.

12-17-17, 08:26 PM	#13
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 690 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	The speed you transit with on the strategic map determines the starting speed/depth in the encounter: Left button, flank = 20kts at 600 ft Right button, cruise = 10kts at 250 ft No button, drifting = 5kts at 50 ft So you want to perform your end-arounds in the strategic map layer by letting them come to you. This puts you into a more advantageous starting position.

12-18-17, 12:26 AM	#14
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,711 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	That’s true. But I have noticed times in the campaign that the next mission started with me at the same speed the last mission ended even though a slower or higher speed is shown to be ordered, the actual speed is different. For example, mission starts, I’m running 2 knots, but 20/600 is ordered. Or vice versa. Always seems to be when my last speed was something other than a multiple of 5. Like 2 kts 8 kts 12 kts etc Another issue with speed, if I order two knots, the sonar display background scroll becomes very clear obviously because there is less own ship noise... if I then click ultra quiet... speed stays at 2 kts but background scrolling noise in sonar display goes back to that if a higher own ship sound made at 5 kts __________________