Pros and Cons - Current Tank Sims (and your recommendations?)

[zossy1]

Hi guys,

Noob here - great forum, I'm really looking forward to getting stuck into some armored action!

I have played many war games over the years but never an armored sim - at least not since M1A1 Tank Platoon (the first one) back in the 80s! Things have sure changed since then.

With this in mind, I am looking for something new to play. I have two systems I use regularly - one is a fairly stock compact Dell Latitude 4300 Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz, 4GB RAM and onboard Intel graphics for my trips on the train (XP SP3). The second PC is an Sager gaming laptop, less than a year old with i7 processor and top shelf everything (Win 7).

Given these systems, what would be the best tank sim to play on each system? I would prefer WW2-era sims but modern sims would be OK if the playability was superior. I am familiar with mods and JSGME from my time playing SH3 GWX. I would love something with a dynamic campaign and with infantry represented, but I am really looking for the best armored warfare gameplay experience as the priority.

I like the look of T34 vs. Tiger with ZeeWolf's mods...

Any thoughts on Achtung Panzer Kharkov? Any mod support for this game yet? It looks to have some weaknesses (at least on the reviews I have read).

Of the many other options, are there any that stand out?

Thanks guys!
zos.

[frinik]

Hi Zossy !

Every now and then somebody comes to this forum and starts a new thread asking the same question( read the recent threads going back to January).There are 2 WWII sims as Achtung Panzer the Road to Kharkov is a RTS( very good and well done according to the critics but not a simulation).

Sim-wise you basically have Steel Fury Kharkov 1942 a very good single player( no MP) sim with lots of mods and full developers support and a very active community).

TvsT was a bug-ridden, dead ender with few SP mission and a mostly MP component but abandoned by its developers like a hot potato.Both SF1942 and TvsT were distributed by Lighthouse Intreactive which went belly up last year.TvsT has better graphic but little else UNTIL Zeewolf CAME ALONG AND RESCUED THAT SIM FROM OBLIVION.Now there are mods and new missions and that game has found a future but it´s not free( unlike SF mods).However it´s worth the investment.Check ZeeWolf´s website or read the TvsT threads on this forum.


MY own opinion I have all 3 WW2 sims and love each for their own qualities.However to tell you the truth I wouldn´t still be playing TvsT if it were not for ZeeWolf´s Kursk mod and missions as SF 1942 has no bugs, lots of missions, vehicles and mods.

There's also Panzer Elite(not the Panzer Elite Action crap but the real original one!!!!).It's 12 years old with dated graphics but a very good game with lots of missions and free mods.

Post WW2 there's steel Beast the best by far and a classic but expensive.Veru modded and active community.
Otherwise in second tier, far behind, is T72 Balkans on Fire not too bad but not too exciting either.

A new tank sim is being developed by Graviteam the people who made Steel Fury 1942 and T72 which will pit the M60 against the T62 .It's promising but not out yet.

That's pretty much it.

Welcome

[Skybird]

You said WWII is preferred, so that leaves you with Steel Fury and TvT.

You also said that modern tank is okay if playability is superior, and you said you know M1TP. Considering both statements, Steel Beasts Pro is the only option for you then, because tactics are an important part of tank warfare and no other tank sim does the tactics part as well as SBP. Also, the realism factor in SBP is simply superior in all functional regards. Think of it as everything you wished M1TP would be - and then square it. I do not make myself many friends with this statement, but I must say that regarding simulation aspects, Steel Fury and TvT cannot compete with SBP, in no way. i think of them as actionsims at best. Both titles also lack the possibly mission compelxity and scale of SBP: described as a simulator of mechanised warfare focussing on platoon and company level, you can, if you want, also design batallion- and brigade-level scenarios. I tested it with according vehicle numbers four years ago, and the version back then still ran smooth.

Check the forum, and the resources stickies on top. Also use the search funtion to find threads about SBP, there have been so many threads on SBP where everything you need to know already has been said several times. there also is a screenshot and a video thread (linked in the sticky). The sim originally was designed to be a training tool for the real military, and that still is where the producer makes his money. But the civil gamer can handle it with ease as well, getting much fun from it. If the time era does not matter for you, SBP is the way to go (even more so since you can make it behaving like tank combat in WWII, too, see the essay in the SBP resources sticky.

Be advised that a new version of SBP is imminent, adding anadditional set of new vehicles, amongst other features. Release date is 21st August.

One of many:


It got confirmed meanwhile that the new version will include even more new vehciles than are mentioned here, for example the M60.

On Steel Fury, I only say that I played and reviewed it, and took it as a sub-standard simulation, but a reasonably entertaining action game. so9und, gameplay, AI has imo very serious issues.

TvT, which I meanwhile was able to testplay on somebody else's system, left me unimpressed. The linear mission layouts lack reasons for replayability, and remind quite much of action games where the player has little room to stray off the predesgined path of the story. also, you need to do quite some modding in ordert to get - partially game-criplling - bugs fixed.

Both games see some modding activity, but for the most that seems to be cosmetic only, not allowing serious changes to AI, tactics, mission freedom, etc. Mods add a lot of new vehicles, it seems, but to what degree these vehicles are realistically modelled in ballistics, weapon characteristics and armour, I cannot judge. I highly doubt they reach SBP's expertise in these regards.

Panzer Elite, the old one, that got mentioned one posting above, I cannot recommend nowadays any longer, it simply is hopelessly outdated in all regards. The T72 Balkans on Fire was an uninspired, and I seem to remember: badly supported game, and left me completely unimpressed.

[zossy1]

Thanks for the useful info - and apologies for not locating those earlier threads. Hate to have you guys reinvent the wheel - i'll see if I can locate them.

Will definitely take a closer look at those options.

[ZeeWolf]

Welcome aboard zossy!

ZeeWolf

ZW's new playable Tiger E1 mid version

[frinik]

Zossy , just to add my grain of salt.Steel Beast is a simulator software developed by professionals working for NATO and used ny NATO countries.It´s way above the competition because it´s just that a simulator forst and foremost that became a game by default.It features current, state-of-the-art armour the like of which has never existed before.That explains the relatively high purchase price, the degree of sophistication and the somewhat understated graphics.It was not intended as entertainment or gaming; at least not initially.In my opinion compàring SB with the others is like the proverbial apples and oranges.....

The others whether Steel Fury, TvsT, Panzer Elite etc where never intended to faithfully recreate tank warfare in order to train people but merely as historical recreation intended to entertain sim fans and provide hours of fun either as single player or multi.I called them simulation games as opposed to SB which is simulation training software turned into a game. The sim games allows us to live or experience in a remote fashion what is was like to fight in behemoths like the Tigers, Panthers, T34s or Shermans in the greatest and bloodiest conflict ever experienced by mankind.The costs are also not comparable, SB is expensive whereas the others can be purchased cheaply.You get what you pay for which does not detract the fact that both TvsT and SF offer good value for their price as does SB but on different levels.

Once you accept those differences you can decide whether you want to go for the serious SB which will really allow you what it feels like to manoeuvre the best armour the modern world has to offer:the Leopard 2A6, the MA1Abrams, the Challenger 2 and their Russian counterparts or would you rather play entertaining but less realistic and sophisticated sim games...

Up to you.Although of you can afford SB as well as SF and TvsT then you can sample a bit of everything.

Hope we haven´t bombarded you too much with too many options but since you asked for a recommendation....

[Skybird]

I just want to add that SBP may be meant as a pro trainign tool, but it can be handled like any simple action game, if wanted. Also, the range of vehicles is consantly growing, and the MBTs now range back to the M60 and the T-62 and T-55 (plus plenty IFVs and APCs). If switiching off modern systems like laser, thermals, NVGs, and battling with optical sights only, you can do battle in WWII style with quite old tanks now - just with hopelessly superior tactical options and mission diversity possible - and in much bigger scenarios (if you want you can have batallions and regiments/brigagdes. Whether or not it make ssense to set up such big scenarios, is something totally different).

I also must line out that SF and TvT suffer from imo seriously flawed design features, in case of SF i mention a very incompetent AI, small mission scale, very bad sound environment (no distance-volume relation, no sound travelling delay, no differing of own tank from that tank 2 km away getting hit). with the original release, which I tested, I found mkissions to become very simplistic and repetitive very soon. Tactical challenge: zero. In case of TvT, which I only tested one afternoon on somebody else's system some time ago, I must mention the immense technical problems of the original release (preventing many people from even launching nthe game, and non-working internet play), and the simplistic, ver ylinear mission gameplay that rmeinded of any action game. Did I perceive it wrong ir do enemies even respawn if the player does not advance in the prefixed linear way to the next ingame progress point? I had the very strong impression, but I did not play it long. In what it does, the game looks nice, but it does not much, and other than that it left me unimpressed: tactical challenge: zero.

So, for the quick break in the office that may be good enough, like "Moorhuhn Shooting". More I cannot get from these two.

I do not wish to piss any modders here, to make that clear. If people like some game and invest time into adding skins and vehicles to it, there is nothing to say against that enthusiasm. but I think fairness demands to also reveal the deficits of a game to somebody still considering whether or not he separates from his money, since I see both games as problematic. The games may be cheap now, but they are not free. SBP may look more expensive than usual games, but the durability per buck ratio for SBP is extremely high, making it a cheap title, whereas even with the low price of SF and TvT, the durability per buck ratio is very low, making the games if not expensive then at leat not as cheap as they look.

Edit
P.S. Just realised that I partially repeated myself. Sorry for that, I did not mean to squeeze my thoughts into your jaw.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

Welcome aboard zossy!

ZeeWolf

ZW's new playable Tiger E1 mid version

As I said, the looks of TvT are good!

[frinik]

Again my experience with Steel Fury differs from Skybird´s.Yes the AI can be dumb at times but on balance I would say it´s acceptable . The infantry ducks, takes cover and acts very human'like at times.The tanks will try to outflank or catch you by surprise.Certainly compared to Panzer Elite or TvsT it´s much better( although ZeeWolf has made solid strides with TvsT's AI).I have been playing it for 2 years and there are over 90 missions now depending on the mods and the mission editor is user-friendly which allows me to make my taste-tailored missions.TvsT true enough was very linear and ultimately a dead end as the ME is hard to crack and no new missions or addons were being produced.That has changed with ZeeWolf's mods.

If you were playing M1A1 tank platoon you may feel more at home with SB( I ´ve never played M1A1 so I am just assuming).

Best way to find out which one is for you is to download the free demos. SB, SF and TvsT have free demos you can download and try before you make a choice.

[ht-57]

My 2 cents...
Steel fury is fun for a while....But sbprope is by far, the smoothest running, longest lasting title to ever grace this ole pc. best buck fifty I spent on a sim bar none!