SUBSIM®  Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM® Radio Room Forums > Subsims & Naval Games > Ironclads
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-22-2008, 05:41 PM   #16
missleman01
Seaman
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 41
Downloads: 70
Uploads: 0
Default

From Totem

Quote:
While the campaign currently under construction will conform to the real course of the Civil War if the player follows a historical path, it will also be possible to play missions based on alternate outcomes of events which assume a more favourable position for the Confederation in the first two years of the conflict, including diplomatic recognition and construction of a stronger, more balanced Southern fleet in European shipyards. In the campaign, the composition and condition of your fleet will be determined by real economic factors faced by the opposing sides. Diplomatic relations with other states will determine whether the Confederation can receive new ships it had ordered and paid for, but never received.

The primary goals for missions will include conducting and lifting blockades, commerce raiding on the high seas, suppression of coastal batteries, and fleet battles featuring everything from gunboats and sloops to cruisers and ironclads.
Couple of questions for either totem reps, or Sea Tiger...

First, is the campaign finished and part of the game? The main page says its under construction

Second, Sea Tiger, you said that it would be nice to have forts, is the suppression of coastal batteries in the description on totem not including things like forts (such as Fort Morgan at Mobile Bay)? Have you not run into them yet, or Totem...are they included?

Mainly curious. I would love to purchase this and love the demo. I just hope that the campaign described is included.

Thanks
missleman01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2008, 08:04 PM   #17
CaptainHaplo
Silent Hunter
 
CaptainHaplo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,402
Downloads: 22
Uploads: 0
The campaigns are completed from my understanding. I was blessed enough to be able allowed to help test one of the two prior to release, so I would have to say yes. I can also say that as soon as funds allow - I will get my copy of this game!!! Its definitely a buy based on the mechanics, timeframe and as you see - excellent support!
__________________
Good Hunting!

Captain Haplo
CaptainHaplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 01:40 AM   #18
Typical Russian
Totem Games
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 175
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

2 missleman01\

" Ironclads: American Civil War" is finished and accessible to purchase and loading on our site. In game there are no big stone forts, but there are coastal batteries and mines. To purchase game at this forum it is necessary to press a banner from above.














2 Captain Haplo\

You do not need to buy a copy of game. You have helped us with testing game. Therefore check up e-mail.



BR,
Totem Games

Typical Russian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 11:49 AM   #19
missleman01
Seaman
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 41
Downloads: 70
Uploads: 0
Default

Thank you all for the quick replys. As soon as funds allow, ill be diving in and look forward to it.

Thanks
missleman01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 05:18 PM   #20
jdkbph
Captain
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 508
Downloads: 104
Uploads: 0
Default Great game, weird problem

Hi there Totem Games,

Purchased your game yesterday and installed it OK, but I'm getting this weird effect where the horizon is tilted at an odd angle - almost vertical - and I'm sailing my ships across both sea and sky. I saw the same effect while playing demo 2 and was hoping it was just a demo thing. Unfortunately, not.

Here's a screenie:




Have you seen this before, and do you have any suggestions for how to fix it?

Machine specs:
Vista Ultimate
Intel C2D e8400
ECS PN2-SLI2+
2 x EVGA 8800GTS (G80) 640MB (SLI'd w/ Forceware 178.13)
4 x 1GB Mushkin PC2-6400 RAM
C: 200GB (120GB free)
D: 300GB (60GB free)
E: 270GB (125GB free)
F: LITE-ON JLMS XJ-HD166S
G: LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1L

Thanks.

JD
jdkbph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 01:16 AM   #21
Typical Russian
Totem Games
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 175
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

One of our buyers had a similar problem. Testing has shown, that it is non-standard work of videocards Nvidia of 8 and 9 generations under control of DirectX. We have solved this problem. Please do not worry. We shall soon contact you.

Totem Team
Typical Russian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 07:04 AM   #22
CaptainHaplo
Silent Hunter
 
CaptainHaplo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,402
Downloads: 22
Uploads: 0
BR / Totem - Thank you very much! That is mighty kind of you! I look forward to recieving your email!
__________________
Good Hunting!

Captain Haplo
CaptainHaplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 10:28 AM   #23
jdkbph
Captain
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 508
Downloads: 104
Uploads: 0
Default

Just wanted you all to know that Totem did contact me and the fix they gave me (a new exe file) worked perfectly.

Thanks Totem guys.

JD
jdkbph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 08:30 AM   #24
Crinius
Watch
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wilhelmshaven/Germany
Posts: 27
Downloads: 21
Uploads: 0
Default

Is it possible to aim for particular parts of a ship? Because some briefings say that you should aim for the waterline. So far I couldnt figure out how to do this.
Crinius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 11:54 AM   #25
jdkbph
Captain
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 508
Downloads: 104
Uploads: 0
Default

Not that I could find... and I noticed the same thing. I wonder if that was a feature that was dropped for initial release?

For anyone on the fence....

This game is fun... a light diversion at the moment, but it has the potential to be more than that with a few (guessing here) "upgrades" or tweaks. Stuff like...

1. Damage. I haven't noticed that damage does anything other than accumulate. I presume there's a formula that defines how this generic accumulation affects whether the ship sinks or continues to swim. I have not noted any specific effects such as rudder damage that affects maneuverability, or engine/screw damage that effects speed. I have not seen anything blow up due to magazine or boiler hits.

2. Damage reporting. The simple fire/flood/damage system works for now, but I would like to see them expand here. For instance, I would like to know that my rudder has been shot away, or that 2 of 4 boilers have been disabled. In other words, if any of the above is in the game (or may make it into the game at a later date) I'd like to know about it. Detail and thoughtful analysis based on detail are one of the prime advantages of a turn based Igo-Ugo game system.

3. Is there a crew on board? How are they being affected by the battle? Yeah, I can bounce 68 pounders off the Virginia's hull all day without causing significant damage to the ship, but what is that doing to the crew... and by extension the combat capability of the ship?

4. Fights to the death. This may be an AI thing or a combination of AI and GUI, but the AI needs to run/beach/surrender when it's getting whipped, and the player needs the ability to surrender as well. Why? There's no historical reason why a ship can't strike colors, taking itself out of the fight (no player control), yet be "reclaimed" should the player eventually win the day. Striking colors, in the classic naval sense, requires that the opponent take possession in order to complete the surrender.

5. More status type info. What's my current speed? Heading? Wind and wave state, and how does that affect the way my ship handles?

6. Info about sighted enemy ships. Granted, you wouldn't know much, but you should be able to estimate speed and heading - or at the very least know whether something is or is not currently moving and roughly which direction relative to your position. This info should be displayed on the map.

7. Opportunity fire. This game is screaming for opportunity fire. If I chose not to fire a gun during my active turn, the AI should fire it for me at an opportune time. Even better would be allowing the player to customize the parameters used by the AI to conduct opportunity fire (eg, max range, minimum accuracy, etc.).

Oh, and it seems the save function is somewhat hosed... at least on my system. Player named save games do appear in the save folder, but are not visible on the load menu. However, if I rename the save using the "autosave" naming convention (eg, autosave4.tgsave) it shows up fine and I can continue the game.

Overall though, this game is highly recommended to naval history buffs and fans of the obscure. It has some seriously good potential to expand beyond the ACW - the Italian/Austro-Hungarian war (Lissa, etc), the Texas Revolution, the Pacific Wars (Peru v Chile, etc), the Crimean thing, and any number of what-ifs (what if the Brits came in on the Confederate side to break the blockade, etc). You just don't get this anywhere else short of board gaming. And at $35 (USD), it's not that hard on the pocket book.



JD

Last edited by jdkbph; 10-25-2008 at 12:19 PM.
jdkbph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 09:04 PM   #26
CaptainHaplo
Silent Hunter
 
CaptainHaplo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,402
Downloads: 22
Uploads: 0
jdkbph,

While I cannot answer all the questions - I can touch on a few. Damage will SLOWLY be repaired as turns pass. This is slow - so dont expect to see drastic damage fixed quickly. I see 1% fixed usually every 2-3 turns.

As for crew - your crew has a training level on each ship. This information - at least in testing - was nore readily available to be seen. However, it has a great impact on your ship's performance. Crew is also factored in to damage - perhaps simplistic in some respects, but actually very helpful and useful for those of us who don't like to micromanage.

You talked about "bouncing" shells off the Virginia's hull all day for no damage. Even small shots will wear down the armor of a ship. Each hit in a specific area will futher weaken the armor there - so even firing dinky little guns at an ironclad is worth it over time. This is one area that the game truly excells in, as it monitors accumulated damage to areas.

When it comes to aiming - there is not, to my knowledge (which is limited), a way to aim at a specific point, unless where you click on an enemy ship is the aiming point. That might be the mechanics used.

However, I can tell you a couple of specifics about aiming. Each ship is divided just as your damage screen shows: Fore, center and aft areas - each divided into a port and starboard side. This creates 6 damage "areas". The most effective shots will concentrate fire in one of these locations.

For example - a "broadside" shot - where your shooting at the parallel side of your enemy, usually spreads your shots out - the majority going into the center -with a few going fore and aft (not counting misses). However, if you use proper ship handling, you can often fire your shots at a more narrowed area. One thing I often did was turn BEHIND enemy vessels. Then, while I passed behind them, my guns would be able to bear for a limited time - either on one side as I approached, or the other "far" side as I passed. Using this technique allowed me mazimize my shot placements - meaning more hits in specific areas. The more damage - the more likely you can have a fire or flooding affect the enemy. At the least - concentrated damage often takes out a few guns - sometimes permenantly! If you use this successfully enough, you get to enjoy seeing the enemy down aft and struggling to just stay afloat! Not to mention many of the ships you use this with often cannot turn fast enough on their next "round" to target you. Remember that landing shots on your opponent, while staying out of his shot range/angle, makes winning alot easier!

You mentioned opportunity fire - can you explain a bit more of what you want here? Usually when my ship has finishd moving - it has no enemy in a targetable position. This may be just due to my style of play, but its very important to remember that these ships have a very small "window of opportunity" when it comes to engaging targets successfully unless the guns are turreted. For fixed broadside guns, its usually apparent where and when you have the "best available shot". If you dont stop and take it there - then you are wasting the opportunity. Think of it this way - your the captain. If you don't yell fire - is your crew going to let loose? Of course not. You take your shots when you think you should. Personally - I suggest get as close as possible, fire every available gun when its highlighted, and thus insure that every shot in a full broadside counts!!! If you can explain "opportunity fire" a little better, the Totem guys seem to be very open to suggestions!
__________________
Good Hunting!

Captain Haplo
CaptainHaplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 02:49 AM   #27
Typical Russian
Totem Games
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 175
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

2 Crinius\

The artillery in days of Civil war was still very primitive. The shell flied aside the enemy, but not to a concrete part. To aim a gun at any part it was almost useless.

However, if your ship stands very close to the enemy the shell flies in parallel a direction of a gun. It can be used to fire separate parts. Always shoot only from one side of a vessel. Always shoot at that part which is protected by the reservation worse. Simply put the ship in parallel or perpendicularly to the enemy and shoot.

Try to imagine sector of bombardment of your gun. Here in this sector the shell also will fly to the purpose.

Totem Team
Typical Russian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 03:36 AM   #28
Typical Russian
Totem Games
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 175
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

2 jdkbph\

We tried make game in which the person who does not understand war on the sea can to play. Besides we have decided to not show the player of that information which the captain in 1862 could not know.

1. Damage is a physical destruction of a design of the ship, destruction of guns and murder of a crew. Destruction influences efficiency and accuracy of shooting, speed of the ship and its maneuverability. Flooding is a receipt water inside of the case of the ship through through holes in the case. Flooding leads to that that the ship or will slowly sink or overturns. If water acts in all parts of the ship in identical quantity to sink quantity of water inside of the ship should be equaled to its displacement. If in one of parts of the ship there are more than holes and more water the ship bends until will turn over. To turn over the ship it is necessary that in one of its parts was more waters than in other parts provisional on 10 % from displacement. Critical damages to game are not present.

2. It is very difficult to find balance between simplicity and details. I have understood your wish.

3. Onboard there is a crew. 68 hits it not so are a lot of. At the first bombardment of the Charleston in each of monitors of the USA 50 shells have got on the average.

4. You can remove the ship from fight. The opponent too does it if its ship is threatened with danger of destruction. But it not always turns out. Sometimes the ship receives such damages that has not time to run aground or fall outside the limits a map any more for one round.

5. To a regret in 1862 there were no devices for measurement of speed of the ship. The captain approximately measured the speed on number of turnovers of a shaft of the screw. Thus if the steam machine has been damaged, measured not truly. Pay attention what even today we do not know exact speed CSS Virginia.

6. It agree. Good idea.

7. Movement - the Stop - the Shot - Movement. The most successful combination.

8. Save of game - explain please more in detail.


It is our first game. We attentively study your responses to understand that it has turned out, and that it is necessary to change. Thanks for your response.
Typical Russian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 05:42 PM   #29
jdkbph
Captain
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 508
Downloads: 104
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks for the reply. I'll respond in-line below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typical Russian
We tried make game in which the person who does not understand war on the sea can to play.
I'm not sure about the thinking here. Based on subject matter alone, it seems to me your audience is by definition "grognard". Casual gamers are not interested in ACW era ironclads.

Quote:
Besides we have decided to not show the player of that information which the captain in 1862 could not know.
I agree with this design principle. However, nothing I suggested would require that you violate that principle.

Quote:
1. Damage is a physical destruction of a design of the ship, destruction of guns and murder of a crew. Destruction influences efficiency and accuracy of shooting, speed of the ship and its maneuverability. Flooding is a receipt water inside of the case of the ship through through holes in the case. Flooding leads to that that the ship or will slowly sink or overturns. If water acts in all parts of the ship in identical quantity to sink quantity of water inside of the ship should be equaled to its displacement. If in one of parts of the ship there are more than holes and more water the ship bends until will turn over. To turn over the ship it is necessary that in one of its parts was more waters than in other parts provisional on 10 % from displacement.
I understand. I was referring to specific damage, such as damage to a rudder or steering mechanism, an engine, or a boiler.

Quote:
Critical damages to game are not present.
This is something I believe you should consider for a future update or perhaps your next game. Critical damage such as damage to systems I mentioned above did occur during battle more often than not. Catastrophic damage such as magazine or boiler explosions did occur as well, albeit not as frequently.

Quote:
2. It is very difficult to find balance between simplicity and details. I have understood your wish.
See my comment above RE: your audience. Grognards want details. If the details are there in the game, but not being presented to the player (with the "only knowing what you should know" caveat), you're selling the game short, IMHO.

Quote:
3. Onboard there is a crew. 68 hits it not so are a lot of. At the first bombardment of the Charleston in each of monitors of the USA 50 shells have got on the average.
I meant numerous hits from a 68lb'er gun, not 68 gun hits. What I'm trying to say is that any significant number of hits, even if they don't penetrate the armor, should still affect the crew - and by extension the fighting effectiveness of the ship - in a negative way. Again, this may already be part of the game... but if so, we should be aware of it. If not, it may be something else to consider for the future.


Quote:
4. You can remove the ship from fight. The opponent too does it if its ship is threatened with danger of destruction. But it not always turns out. Sometimes the ship receives such damages that has not time to run aground or fall outside the limits a map any more for one round.
Maybe so. I'm still getitng used to the game and I've only seen one example so far where discretion was obviously the better part of valor, but on that one occassion the AI unwisely chose valor.

I was engaged in a battle with 2 fast cruisers/commerce raiders. My force of 2 ships was more heavily armed but much slower. The AI, having the initiative, decided to engage. I quickly sank one of them, at which point the second could have easily escaped but did not even try. The battle inevitably ended with both enemy cruisers sunk. My conclusion was that the AI is either programmed to fight no matter the tactical advantage or disadvantage, or the fight/flight algorithm simply has an error in it. There may be something else more complex at work here, but again, if so, it would be nice to know what it is.

Quote:
5. To a regret in 1862 there were no devices for measurement of speed of the ship. The captain approximately measured the speed on number of turnovers of a shaft of the screw. Thus if the steam machine has been damaged, measured not truly. Pay attention what even today we do not know exact speed CSS Virginia.
I think they were still using simple logs for determining speed through the water... but of course they would not be making those measurements during battle. That said, they would absolutely have a fairly good idea of how fast they were moving relative to their maximum achievable speed under the conditions extant, using the same techniques and drawing on the same type of experience sailing masters used during previous centuries.

The problem here is that damage as it relates to speed is not reported, therefore the percentage of the max speed as shown by the green line is pretty much useless. For instance, if we're showing 50% of max speed, is that 50% of the normal max speed (eg, 12 knots / 2 = 6 knots) or 50% of the current max speed, factoring for damage (eg, 4 knots / 2 = 2 knots)?

Quote:
7. Movement - the Stop - the Shot - Movement. The most successful combination.
Yes, however many game systems that employ that mechanism also use opportunity fire to offset the lack of control during the opponent's turn. For instance, Steel Panthers (computer game) uses an Igo-Ugo play style with opportunity fire.

In that game, you get X number of shots per unit, per turn. If however you leave one or more shots unfired, the AI will fire those shots for you if an enemy unit moves within (a player defined) range during the opponent's turn.

Many board wargames have used this system since forever. It is a well established, well understood gaming convention.

How this would apply to Ironclads is simple. For every ship under your control, you would choose to fire either all or some or none of the guns during your turn. Then during your opponent's turn any enemy movement would trigger a check to see if their current position places them in range and within the firing arc of any previously unfired guns on your ships. If so, then those guns would fire. This could be further refined by giving the player the ability to set a maximum range at which opportunity fire would occur, or perhaps specify a minimum accuracy % for opportunity fire to occur. This way if the player is trying to conserve ammo, the AI would not waste it on far away or low percentage shots.

Quote:
8. Save of game - explain please more in detail.
Hard to explain without pictures... and I didn't think to take any. I tried to save a game using my own save game name. I used AAA as the name of the save. When I went to load a save game, AAA appeared as a save I could load, along with all the autosaveX files. So far so good. However, I then tried to save a game called BBB, but it showed up in the save game load screen as BBBosaveX and it would not load. No matter how many times I tried to save BBB, being sure to delete autosaveX from the name field, it kept overwriting the autosaveX and corrupting the save. I finally figured out that using autosaveX as a save game name was the only sure way to actually save a current situation, so I just started overwriting those, keeping the same name.

I hope that's understandable.


Quote:
It is our first game. We attentively study your responses to understand that it has turned out, and that it is necessary to change. Thanks for your response.
I know and I appreciate that. Please don't take anything here as a criticism. I think it's great that you guys are addressing areas of naval warfare that no one else will touch, and with the great customer support you've shown so far, I have no problem putting up with a few minor issues.

As I said at the end of that last post... I would not hesitate to recommend your game to anyone.

Thanks... and keep up the good work.

JD
jdkbph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 05:47 PM   #30
jdkbph
Captain
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 508
Downloads: 104
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo
You mentioned opportunity fire - can you explain a bit more of what you want here?
I'll just repeat what I wrote to the Totem guy, who had a similar question...

Many Igo-Ugo turn based games also use opportunity fire to offset the lack of control during the opponent's turn. For instance, Steel Panthers (computer game) uses an Igo-Ugo play style with opportunity fire.

In that game, you get X number of shots per unit, per turn. If however you leave one or more shots unfired, the AI will fire those shots for you if an enemy unit moves within (a player defined) range during the opponent's turn.

Many board wargames have used this system since forever. It is a well established, well understood gaming convention.

How this would apply to Ironclads is simple. For every ship under your control, you would choose to fire either all or some or none of the guns during your turn. Then during your opponent's turn any enemy movement would trigger a check to see if their current position places them in range and within the firing arc of any previously unfired guns on your ships. If so, then those guns would fire. This could be further refined by giving the player the ability to set a maximum range at which opportunity fire would occur, or perhaps specify a minimum accuracy % for opportunity fire to occur. This way if the player is trying to conserve ammo, the AI would not waste it on far away or low percentage shots.

JD
jdkbph is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2018 Subsim