How can i change the Sea handling Qualities of a Ship?

[LtzS_Petersen]

Hi!
I really enjoy the Fubuki Destroyer, but she doesnt really move in high Waves. So i looked at other Ships and their Values (with the Silent 3ditor) an try to change some, to get a better Movement. Unfortunately, i really dont know which Value does in influence which Movement.
Can somebody help me to find the needed Adjustment?

Seems o.k.:


To deep in the Water with the Stern:


Thx,
and please excuse my poor english.


Edit: Fist try Vickers Mod before change anything: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1433
He makes some Changes to reach the better SH3 Physics.
Than comes the vernier Adjustment.

[Jan Kyster]

how does she float in calm sea?

If she balance fine there, I'm afraid there's not much you can do... but if her behind is heavy (which I actually can't see is the case in the above picture), you can trim her balance through unit_ship.obj_hydro.debug.fr_ratio

[LtzS_Petersen]

Thanks, i will test it.
In Calm Sea everything is fine.
It seems to be a Problem between the Ship Movement and the Wave Movement. The Bow moves up (Stern down) and than comes the Wave. The high Bow avoid the Movement of the Stern and the Wave overrun the Ship from the Middle. This happens only at a certain Wave Height.
She moves to slow in the Waves, like a Battleship. I try to lower the Weight, but i cannot see any Effect of this.

Here a Video on Youtube, but with smaller Waves (Flak Mission):

Better than bevor, but not optimal.

Hope that is readable.

[Jan Kyster]

I think she floats and acts rather well in that video... nice one btw.! and great looking little ship!




You're running in what? 20 ft. waves? and with heavy weights in both ends compared to her tonnage, you will occational get that oscillating effect.
Looks convincing from here...

Silhoutte indicates a freeboard of some 2.2 to 2.5 meter along most of her hull, so you will get loads of "decks-awash" too...

If you want to alter her handling, there are values like drag up/down and weight/displacement to play with.



Please keep us updated - and welcome to the World of Modding!


/edit: found a (for me unknown) link with some nice stuff: http://www.friesian.com/destroy.htm

[LtzS_Petersen]

Originally Posted by Jan Kyster

Please keep us updated - and welcome to the World of Modding!

Hehe, thanks.
I will start a new try from Stock (my Uranami sunk in the Morning without Enemy contact , to much Gravity i think ) and test the Values systematically.

[LtzS_Petersen]

Ooookay, here she comes...


You need the S3D - Silent 3ditor from skwasjer to change anything:
The Fubuki.sim is in /playable DD Fubuki.../Data/submarine/NDD_Fubuki/



I changes the Mass of the Ship from 1680 -> 1730, this prevent the to long lasting Dive in High Waves. (i try the Mass of 500, she sinks like a Stone )

GC height from 2,8 -> 3,8, to let her more roll
fr ratio from 0,5 -> 0,4, prevent that the Stern ist to long under the Water
Drag:
LR: 0,25
UD: 0,05
Thats for the better Movement in the Waves.

Make a copy of the Fubuki.sim and rename it to Fubuki_old.sim bevor you change anything (its really better )
After every Change you must deactivate and activate the Fubuki Mod in JSGME, otherwise you see no Change.

Thanks to Xantrokoles for these fine Ship.

Video on Youtube:



its not final, but much more better than before. I think i can lower the Mass a little bit...

Edit: Now:
Mass 1720
fr ratio 0,43
UD 0,04
LR 0,27

At High Waves be carefully with Max Speed, this causes green Water on Deck (i dived 10m, but i could save her and our Lives ). Thats o.k., during my Navy Time at a german FPB we had the same Problem in the Bay of Biscay, at 18Knots.
Similar High Rudder during Max Speed, only 10° was allowed at the FPB. You can try more, but without warranty of the Shipyards.
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomozuru_Incident

Last Changes:
Mass 1721
fr ratio 0,41
UD 0,03
LR 0,35
gc Height 3,5

Now its o.k. i think.

[TorpX]

@LtzS_Petersen

Could you explain what the variables you changed relate to?

• gc height center of gravity, I assume
• fr ratio ??
• UD ??
• LR ??

Also, I don't understand the screenshot where the surfaced displacement=0 and draught=0.

BTW, the last version in the video looked much better.
How is the acceleration/deceleration and turning?

[LtzS_Petersen]

fr ratio is the Center of Gravity over the length of the Ship, 0,5 is the Middle, 1 is the Bow. If her Stern is to often under Water i reduced it a little bit. Its like shes hanging on a Hook.
UD- Up-Down drag Coeffizient, if it is smaller, the Ship moved easier.
LR- Left- Right, the same.

But this is more for a later finishing or a single Ship. I found here (anywhere, dont know where, i think i was from Keltos) this, thats more global: ^^

..edit the sim.cfg located in data\cfg
change this:

[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.2
Waves attenuation=0.75

into this:

[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.5
Waves attenuation=0.03

But this is for all Ships. I use the SH3 Physics for SH4 Mod to change the sim.cfg and it works fine.
Surface displacement= if its 0, the Mass will taken, if the Draught= 0, the Position of the Ship (if i remember right, above Water) will taken. The Mass of the Ship regulates the Draught. As i wrote before, with a Mass of 500 she sunk like a Stone.

Acceleration, Deceleration and turning looks for me like before. But the Acceleration was unrealistic

Phew, many english Words.

I will make new Trials with the Asashio DD from peabody, if i find bad Weather Conditions.

[TorpX]

Thanks for the reply.
I think I get the general idea of what you said, except I don't understand why changing the mass would make it sink.

The reason why I'm interested is I would like to make the subs and ships more realistic. I play the S-class boats a lot, and I notice they plow through the waves effortlessly, barely slowing down at all.

I will try the mod you mentioned. Please post updates on your progress.

[Jan Kyster]

Footnote:
It's a bad idea to change the values in sim.cfg as this "ruins" the environment mod settings.
There may also be some unwanted sideeffects like sinking ships in harbours, convoys etc.

Footnote over. Carry on!

[LtzS_Petersen]

I couldnt believe that less Mass let sink her. I think it is more likely the Counter Force thats the Water needed to hold the Ship.

@Jan Kyster: Thats why i used the sim.cfg from the Mod. Any Change is restorable.

Edit: Here is the Link of this Mod from Vickers: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1433

Hehe, i think he made already some Mods for Destroyer Command.



You can try the normal Mod first, it changes a lot.

Edit2: Asashio Mod DD from peabody:

only changed a little bit, she was better than the Fubuki.
Mass=2365
gc height=the same
fr ratio=0,45
LR=0,55
UD=0,18

[TorpX]

It looks good.

If you wanted to increase drag, so that a ship or sub will slow down faster, what variable would you need to change?

[LtzS_Petersen]

Mmmh, the Typ IX D2 needs 150m from flank to stop (with reverse flank), i think this is quite good, a Destroyer at 30kt needs 250m in real. In Ports there are the Mooring Lines needed, to take any Movement out of the Ship. Unfortunately we have not any. So a little Movement left.


Christmas Islands


You can try the Submerged drag, but i have never test any Changes there. So write down all Changes.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by LtzS_Petersen

Destroyer at 30kt needs 250m in real.

Link or reference please.

[Jan Kyster]

So, now LtzS_Petersen is in trouble!