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Old 12-26-09, 06:40 PM   #271
karamazovnew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTotenkopf View Post
i love it. great job, so i did read the manual how to use it but i cant still understand it. can someone make a video on youtube or something like that?
On it... but it will take a while. Most info is already in the manual, it all depends on how carefully you read it. Building up a general lesson that should also apply for SH5 (I hope).
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Old 12-27-09, 08:46 AM   #272
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I read something about ship measurements a few pages back. A little tip, is basically a hidden feature I used during development. In the 3D view press ctrl+F8. This gives you some node and rendering info, like fps, but also model dimensions in meters.

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Old 12-29-09, 04:42 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamazovnew View Post
On it... but it will take a while. Most info is already in the manual, it all depends on how carefully you read it. Building up a general lesson that should also apply for SH5 (I hope).

The problem is that english is not my native language. I think if i see how its done i will have a better idea how to use it.
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Old 12-29-09, 05:52 PM   #274
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Hello,
just trying again - so what am i doing wrong. I need a simple explanation of what to do, no multiplying with x if the scope is at 1.5 magnifying. Let's say it is at 6x all the time.
And it seems the target also changes its speed all the time, but let's concentrate on the steps to adjust the right topedo settings panel. I cannot understand it from the manual, sorry.
So let us assume i am at 6x magnification all the time, so nothing to multiply or whatever.

OK, situation is i am running roughly at a "T" course, the enemy ship is 45 degrees right in the periscope, AOB roughly guessed should be 35 degrees to port. So i am running straight ahead, and the target slowly wanders from the right to the left, slowly increasing its AOB to port.
I am moving at roughly 2 knots, target ship an estimated 8 (training U-boat school misssion, second target drone ship).

So first i identify the ship: "Target drone", ahh. Now i guess this is the 1850 ton cargo ship, mast height 24 meters, length 81 (hope it is).

Mast head in the units shown in the 'scope is 5.2 units, ok.
Switch on the AOB wheel, and set the inner dial of the middle wheel at the top wedge, at 5.2 (6x magnifying).

Then search for the outer wheel mast height (24), and read the outer dial units of the middle ring corresponding with the 24 of the outer wheel - roughly 1800 meters distance, ok.

I go to the right panel, switch off this glowing thing and set distance to 1800 meters. I also switch the speed to an assumed 8 knots.

Now i have the distance, and need to get the AOB, which looks to be roughly 45 degrees by now.

I take the length of the ship, it is roughly 13 left, and 13 right from the vertical center line. Since i am at 6x magnif. i add the values and get 26, ok ?

But what do i do now ?

The ship spans 26 degrees. Now i align the 1800 meters of the outer dial of the middle wheel, with the length of the ship, on the outer wheel - meaning i turn the 1800 meters to the 81 meters length of the target ship.

Now where do i read the AOB ?? When i act according to the KiUB manual i would look at the inner middle circle for "26" - which is at a 11 o'clock position of the inner wheel, and there are no numbers - blank steel. Gawwwd.
WTF am i doing wrong ?


edit: ok, didn't add the last lengths, didn't double the span and took now "13" units, thus AOB would be now 58 degrees port (more believable, now at distance of 1000 meters). Fired. All missed.

AM i right that i should tick the light at the torpedo settings panel to "on" again, after entering the AOB as the last change ?

I'm going crazy lol

Greetings,
Catfish
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Old 12-31-09, 07:55 AM   #275
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Hello,
ok, managed to sink all of the ships in the training missions. Got the distance alright, also speed, but failed in AOB - so just guessed it, and it worked

But.

How do i count the units of the ship's length for getting the AOB
in 6x magnification ?

Do i count all the units left and right from the vertical center line, or only those at one side ? Because when i use all left and right, adding them i am not able to read the AOB - it is always above the metal where there are no numbers engraved. When i do the other method, say there aer 12 units left, and 10 right, and i use the middle (=11), the AOB is not correct.

Thanks and greetings, and a Happy New Year,
Catfish
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Old 01-01-10, 12:11 AM   #276
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My PC took a beating and I'm still trying to undo the damage. It's gonna be quite a while until I can get into the game. Too bad I can't post pictures either since I don't have screenshots. Anyway, here's a few things...

1. Never ever move the periscope when the TDC Autoupdate is OFF (in manual input mode). If you do, you mess up the AOB
2. Always unlock a target after you take the length and width readings. If you stay locked on the target, the AOB will always be wrong.
3. If you calculate the AOB, input it, then change your course, then fire, you'll miss. Every time you change course, you mess the AOB.

Forget about 1.5X zoom. There are 2 sets of periscope marks, the ones that you see when the AOBF is hidden, and the ones that you see when it's shown. As I said, the only difference between the 2, is that the AOBF ones are already doubled on the horizontal. A ship that spans 20 degrees, will span -10 +10 on the normal marks and -20 +20 on the AOBF ones. Since the Lock feature usually lock on the center of the 3d model, it's easier to just use the doubled ones.

So.. let's say you've spotted a ship (single, no escorts):

1. estimate AOB (no calculations, eyes only).
2. intercept at 90 degrees, based on that estimated AOB
3. decide if the target is moving slow enough to allow you to intercept it. If not, move parallel with it at flank speed until you overtake it by at least 45 degrees(when it's at your 225 or 135 bearing). Then do a T intercept.
4. as it moves closer, submerge (even warships will only spot you if they're bigger than 2 milirads or 2d mark on the scope).
5. at around 5000 meters you should be able to see it properly to do a reading (height + length). Write them down if you have bad memory and immediately UNLOCK the scope and don't move it anymore.
6. do the calculations but don't take note of the range, only the AOB.
7. enter the AOB, turn the TDC Autoupdate back ON and only now move the periscope to get 90 degree intercept course.
8. As you begin moving to that course reset your scope to 000 and reinput 90 degree AOB. From now on, any time you move the scope by mistake in manual mode, you can just repeat this step, set scope to 000 and reinput 90 AOB.
9. As soon as your target reaches 50 degrees AOB (at your 320 or 40 bearing) full reverse to bring your speed to 0 knots and stay there. If the target is very close you can just stay there, if not, you'll catch up later.
10. Start the chronometer and set your torpedoes in the meantime, you usually have about 20 seconds. As soon as the stern passes the center line stop the chrono and order a flank speed to catch up.
11. On the move, do a speed calculation and enter it in the TDC.
12. Immediately move the scope until the Gyro reads 000 (0 on the big one, 0 on the tens one). I'll call this the LOS bearing. If the target hasn't passed that point, you don't need to calculate the range. If your target is bigger than 4 milirads (4'th mark) you're close enough on any torpedo.
13.Shoot the torpedoes as soon the target reaches LOS bearing.
14.If the target did pass it already (it was too fast for you). Immediately do a quick range check and enter it in the TDC. Then move the scope over the target again and shoot.

And 3 more things:
1. the torpedoes take a few seconds to shoot and come to a full speed (even if you had opened the tubes). So shoot about 2 seconds before the sweet spot.
2. Speed input sucks in SH4. The dial is small (my bad) so you'll usually have a 0.2 knot error (better than the US boats tho, as they didn't allow for decimal speeds). So it helps to be as close as possible to your target.
3. Never use steam torpedoes. The target will spot them about 20 seconds before impact, enough time for them to full reverse and turn 90 degrees

As you can see, I've entered the final AOB at step 8, the final speed at step 11 and an optional range at step 14. The vids should be more helpful in understanding what that bloody AOB does. Hope this helps tho... Sorry Toten, you'll have to wait a bit more for vids.

I hope that in SH5 they'll allow us to input values even when TDC Autoupdate is ON. I also hope they'll link the AOB dial to the compass. Even so, on one attack, I destroyed 12 ships with 13 torpedoes in one single convoy attack (one ship took 2 eels because it was BIG). By single attack I mean that I didn't rechase the convoy to attack it again. It was all done in 30 minutes. That has to be a record. The poor Type VII only has 14 torpedoes! )
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Old 01-05-10, 08:00 AM   #277
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Hello Karamazovnew,

first a Happy New Year !

Second thanks for the info, guess i will find out what is going wrong sometimes now.

I recall from interviews and texts that in real U-boats they would have entered the data in the TDC, and then place the vertical line of the periscope to a certain bearing before the target ship's bow.

If the target ship began to pass the vertical line there would be the shout "Achtung" (attention), and when the exact point of impact crossed the line there would have been the shout "Deckung" (for "cover", or "mark" ?), which was then immediately followed by the direct command to fire the torpedo with the command "Fire" by the 1st WO.
There must have been a short time necessary to really get the torp out of the tube, but i guess the shout "Deckung" was then done a short time before the point of impact touching the vertical line, certainly based on experience. With that method it was possible to exactly hit a certain point of the ship like before the bridge or whatever, if all gathered data were close enough.

Were those three rings in the 'scope really used by the German Kriegsmarine ? And this "Attack disk, was it also a german tool really used back then for getting the data right ?

Thanks a lot and greetings,
Catfish
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Old 01-06-10, 04:51 PM   #278
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Yay back online after moving house

Happy New year Kara. So here it is.

Got it working right.

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Old 01-13-10, 11:27 AM   #279
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Hello Karamzovnew,

thanks for your explanations, hope your PC is working again. But ...
i still am not able to hit anything

I think i get the distance right, identify ship, take height, set this "height" to the upper wedge (in 6x) by turning the middle dial, look for ship height at the outer ring and read the distance from the corresponding outer scale of the inner ring.
But then all goes wrong: I take the length of the ship, and move the middle dial in a way that the outer scale of the middle dial (distance) corresponds with the numbers of the outer dial (real length of ship).

Two questions : When do i have to double or even quadruple the numbers
vertically and horizontally ? Vertical seems to be the same with or without AOBF switched on and regardless of magnification, but i never get the horizontal rest right.
Let's say i am at 6x magnifying, the distance of the middle dial is set to the length of the ship on the outer dial. Regardless whether i doubled the marks or not at the horizontal line of the periscope, the AOB is NEVER right. it should be at some 60 to 80 degrees visually, but what it reads is 15 degrees, or 30 ?!
It does not help that the waves wash over the periscope all the time (or better 90 percent of the time), in hundred percent of the missions there is alway storm in a way that it is difficult to see anything, and when i pause the sim this dreaded "paused" appears exactly where i wanted to read out the length, before the next wave blocks the view altogether again for the next 90 percent of the time.
Seems to really try this out for the training, i need at least mirror-like seas
Greetings,
Catfish
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Old 01-13-10, 11:33 AM   #280
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My PC is working again but I'm in the middle of exams. Making a video is out of the question at this time. Sorry .

However, I'll work on a Word presentation showing an entire attack. That should only take me a few hours. See you back then
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Old 01-13-10, 02:03 PM   #281
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Hello Karamazovnew,
thanks a lot, i really appreciate it - but don't neglect your exams
Good luck,
Catfish
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Old 01-14-10, 12:41 AM   #282
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Done... Hope this does the trick.. I've updated the documetation links on the first post too.

http://www.filefront.com/15351513/Manual-Targeting.zip/

PS. I don't have the patience or energy to go through it again. If there are typos or the whole thing doesn't make sense, oh well...

@MTotenkopf: sorry mate, your english will have to do. I hope the pics speak for themselves.
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Old 01-14-10, 07:59 AM   #283
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Hello Karamzovnew,

hey thanks a lot !!
Just downloaded your document, a "short" 30+ pages report done in a few hours eh ?
When you wrote (not literally) that the bow and stern has to pass the mark, and not the beginning of the pixels i suddenly realized what was wrong and felt like an idiot lol there went my speed calculations
Will still have to read it all, and make some parallel practising.

Hope all goes well with yor exams, i wish you luck

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish
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Old 01-14-10, 01:15 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Hello Karamzovnew,

hey thanks a lot !!
Just downloaded your document, a "short" 30+ pages report done in a few hours eh ?
When you wrote (not literally) that the bow and stern has to pass the mark, and not the beginning of the pixels i suddenly realized what was wrong and felt like an idiot lol there went my speed calculations
Will still have to read it all, and make some parallel practising.

Hope all goes well with yor exams, i wish you luck

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish
I didn't say I wrote it in a "Few hours". It was more like 12 hours
Yeah, at small AOB angles, the width of the ship becomes a problem. If you can clearly see the peak of the bow and the start of the flag (where applicable), then you can take a reading. If not, it's better to wait until you can see them properly. Should the target pass the 000 gyro "fire bearing", as I've shown in the tutorial, don't panic, just take a range reading and use magnetic torpedoes set at a depth equal to the target's draft.

Speed and Bearing need to be accurate.
Range can be off by a few hundred meters, and the AOB can be off by up to 10 degrees, you'll still hit your targets.
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Old 01-16-10, 06:16 PM   #285
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So.. did it help? Have I managed to turn anyone to manual targeting?
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