UK Politics Thread

[Catfish]

Written in 2012:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(Elsberg_novel)

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Michel Barnier's speech at Natolin march 29th, 2019
"Europe after brexit" in pdf form.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...pe_natolin.pdf

That was actually a good read IMHO....from a remainers point of view especially

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Oh, and so i read that the Scots want to go for it again...

Any better chances for them to win an independence referendum these days? And would London even allow another attempt? I of course say the Scots naturally do not need anyone's allowance, but formally, by the written paragraphs on paper, it is like that.

If it gets this far and they vote for independence, I only insist that they must be able to econo9mically finance that themselves. I do not want another hungry mouth to be fed by the EU, another net receiver to the EU that just weakens it further. And of coruse, like the EU wants to treat the UK as an ordinbary third party country from outside the EU, the same treatment must be given to Scotland. No special rules, treaties and treatments. If they want to join the EU, they have to go through the full legal process and the full time table.

Originally Posted by Catfish

They do have to ask London for holding a referendum.

I doubt Westminster will give the green light so near to the previous one that Salmond said was a once in a lifetime event.

The potential problem there will be the risk of alienating more Scots to the point they'll join the leave camp but overall I think the Scots are currently sick of referendums.

What I find rather confusing is the fact that Sturgeon stood up in the Scottish Parliament and said Scotland will be a single country in its own right within the EU and a net payer to boot.

Rather strange when it has already been proven that without additional income from the exchequer the Scots can't raise enough in taxes to meet their financial needs.

Best I don't mention the facts they will not be allowed to keep the Pound Sterling (the Scottish financial institutions aren't viable enough to underwrite it) unlike the Bank of England and the second fact being the EU have already stated that a Brexit by the UK is just that, all four parts, meaning Scotland would have to reapply to a process that could take years (Turkey being a prime example).

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I doubt Westminster will give the green light so near to the previous one that Salmond said was a once in a lifetime event.

The potential problem there will be the risk of alienating more Scots to the point they'll join the leave camp but overall I think the Scots are currently sick of referendums.

What I find rather confusing is the fact that Sturgeon stood up in the Scottish Parliament and said Scotland will be a single country in its own right within the EU and a net payer to boot.

Rather strange when it has already been proven that without additional income from the exchequer the Scots can't raise enough in taxes to meet their financial needs.

Best I don't mention the facts they will not be allowed to keep the Pound Sterling (the Scottish financial institutions aren't viable enough to underwrite it) unlike the Bank of England and the second fact being the EU have already stated that a Brexit by the UK is just that, all four parts, meaning Scotland would have to reapply to a process that could take years (Turkey being a prime example).

All it would take is for EU to make one snide remark about the Scots are not the UK and refer to the fact that they aren't smart enough to leave the EU

Bam! Scotland would join England

[Catfish]

Regarding Jim's comparison between Scotland and Turkey about joining the EU.. well there cannot be a comparison both being much too different from each other . Scotland would of course be allowed, while Turkey will never be as things look.

So the UK decides to leave the EU although all know how damaging this will be, not only economically.
And when it comes to Scotland's independency we hear England explain how damaging Scotland's leave from the UK would be for Scotland.
So it seems brexiters say it will be as damaging to Scotland leaving the UK as for the UK leaving the EU. Ahem.

But when i think of Scotland's production, economy, fishing grounds, north sea oil (not to forget science, Maxwell's laws of electrodynamics, Mr Wattson Watt and his home chain and lots of others) i wonder if Scotland would be so weak after all, and if it would not be able to hold its own. Especially when being in an international organisation like the EU, easing international scientifical and universitarial exchange.

Regarding "snide remarks" towards Scotland (or Ireland), i think just of all England has again excelled in unfortunate comments. The referendum about Scotland remaining in the UK was based on the assumption that the latter stayed in the EU. If anyone manages to drive Scotland out of the UK it is England.. not that i think this will and should happen.

[STEED]

What makes Sturgeon so sure if Scotland went independent of the rest of the UK the result Scotland remains in the EU? The EU has made it very clear if Scotland did that they will automatically be out of the EU and will have to ask the EU to rejoin as a new independent country. Of course the EU may fast track them back into the club if they so choose.

[Jimbuna]

Too many ifs and buts atm, crikey, it doesn't look like the UK will be leaving the EU any time soon the way things are currently going.

The words EU and fast track certainly get me wondering if and how often this is ever achieved.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

That was actually a good read IMHO....from a remainers point of view especially

Thanks, and the latter is true of course . Though i have not read a real good and evident (for the lack of a better word i do not find) text that explains properly what will change for the better, after brexit. Apart from Mr Rees-Mogg's proposals that all depends on having to have more competition within England and then everything will sort out itself.

(Mogg)
"If the UK is to execute an independent trade policy then it can play a role in ensuring that there is an injection of wealth into the global economy. This will improve the lot of all mankind and we, the British people, will be propelled forward on this rising tide. To paraphrase Pitt the Younger we will have saved ourselves by our exertion and we will have saved the world by our example."

To put it bluntly I completely fail to see how this "strategy" or fairy tale will benefit the average person, let alone workers or the "lower class". The wealth of Rees-Mogg and his friends "trickling down"? Maybe removing "classes" would be a better idea in the long run?

This english guest comment appeared in one of the two better german newspapers "Die Zeit". Would you say this is reasonable, or "true"?

[Jimbuna]

I would say Mr. Mogg is living in a parallel universe to the rest of the UK and on a further note, I personally cannot see any end to this whole Brexit debacle that would be acceptable to both sides of the debate.

[ikalugin]

One Russian expert - Puhov, head of Russian think tank CAST, is sceptical if EU would last long due to aging and migrational pressures.

«Основная повестка дня – это не мифическая угроза из России. Это стареющая Европа, в которой живет полмиллиарда, и Африка с Ближним Востоком, где живет три миллиарда – и все ломятся в эту Европу за лучшей жизнью. И скоро она будет заполнена огромным количеством людей. И весь этот хваленый ЕС, который раздает пенсии и платит за страховки, развалится. Тогда Европа погрузится в хаос», – заявил он.

google translated version:

“The main agenda of the day is not a mythical threat from Russia. This is an aging Europe, in which half a billion lives, and Africa with the Middle East, where three billion live, and everyone is bursting into this Europe for a better life. And soon it will be filled with a huge number of people. And all this vaunted EU, which distributes pensions and pays for insurance, will collapse. Then Europe will plunge into chaos, ”he said.

https://www.tvc.ru/video/iframe/id/1...show/id/159380

[Jimbuna]

Bitter Labour infighting over its controversial European elections leaflet continued today as 89 MPs and MEPs called on the party to back a second Brexit referendum.

Yet another Brexit row erupted in Jeremy Corbyn’s party after a draft election leaflet was found to contain no mention of a second vote.

It has prompted the MPs and MEPs – which include shadow Treasury ministers Clive Lewis and Anneliese Dodds – to put their names to a letter demanding that the party’s National Executive Committee (NEC) commits to a public vote during a meeting next week in which the manifesto will be decided.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...id=mailsignout

It would appear Steptoe is starting to get some serious flack from those within his own party. It is long overdue that he shows his true colours regarding Brexit because it is common knowledge he has been anti-EU for two decades or more.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

One Russian expert - Puhov, head of Russian think tank CAST, is sceptical if EU would last long due to aging and migrational pressures.

google translated version:

https://www.tvc.ru/video/iframe/id/1...show/id/159380

I so very very much must agree. As a matter of fact in the longer run I already have written off Europe. Age and demography are powers you cannot bypass. Europe lacks own vitality. Blood infusions from the ME and africa only turn Europe into the ME and Africa.

[Catfish]

^ Oh Putin, perfect saint of freedom and peace, come and save Europe from its folly.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ Oh Putin, perfect saint of freedom and peace, come and save Europe from its folly.

We have our own problems that need fixing.

The concern this expert has is how instability in Europe may affect Russia and our allies.

While I doubt that we are quite at the stage where we need to prepare for waves of European refugees or repell German armoured spearheads (sarcasm) a wave of authoritarian leftists is not something we like after our own Soviet experience.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

[...]
While I doubt that we are quite at the stage where we need to prepare for waves of European refugees or repell German armoured spearheads (sarcasm) a wave of authoritarian leftists is not something we like after our own Soviet experience.

The wave of european refugees invading Russia
German armoured spearheads, well
Authoritarian leftists after .. Stalin. You must have taken some of Skybird's drugs to compare Stalinism with the EU? Not that Stalin was 'left' in any regard. Weren't he and his successors all dictators?