why 50mm of front turret amour for PZIV?

[schnorchel]

As we all know that from G model, PZIV was upgraded its front hull amour to 80mm. but I am curious that why its front turret amour is still merely 50mm till the and of war?

[Sledgehammer427]

I'm no expert, but my guess is that towards the middle of the war, when the PzIV's were being upgunned and upggraded constantly, 5cm of armor was simply enough. At the ranges the PzIV was built to work at, 5cm would be able to handle most incoming rounds, and by the time Allied weaponry got more lethal, the "main battle tank" of the war was the Tiger, or the Panther, both of which could absorb a lot more punishment.

[schnorchel]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

I'm no expert, but my guess is that towards the middle of the war, when the PzIV's were being upgunned and upggraded constantly, 5cm of armor was simply enough. At the ranges the PzIV was built to work at, 5cm would be able to handle most incoming rounds, and by the time Allied weaponry got more lethal, the "main battle tank" of the war was the Tiger, or the Panther, both of which could absorb a lot more punishment.

My underestanding is that 50mm front amour can merely withstand Soviet's 45mm Anti-tank gun's punishment at normal combat range. but when model G introduced red army already issue 76.2mm AT widely. I realy cannot figure out why German leaves PzIV front turret amour untouched. 30mm should not caues too much weight.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by schnorchel

My underestanding is that 50mm front amour can merely withstand Soviet's 45mm Anti-tank gun's punishment at normal combat range. but when model G introduced red army already issue 76.2mm AT widely. I realy cannot figure out why German leaves PzIV front turret amour untouched. 30mm should not caues too much weight.

I tend to agree, weight played a roll. The Panzer IV was not designed with the ability to upgrade to the degree necessary. Being built before the war and beyond any way of knowing how fast the race would begin for the never ending need for greater fire power and armor protection etc. But what made the German so damn good in warfare was not the advancement of their weapons, on the contrary, their tanks became obsolete as soon as they crossed the Russian boarder. What made the deference also made them the best fighting force the world had ever seen. How many know what that was?

ZeeWolf

[Sledgehammer427]

What made the deference also made them the best fighting force the world had ever seen. How many know what that was?

Best training, inter-unit communication, good leadership, and some of the most excellent tactical minds in the military world.

[frinik]

I would add to that superior optics and tank guns and crews well trained in maintaining their equipment...

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by ZeeWolf

their tanks became obsolete as soon as they crossed the Russian boarder. What made the deference also made them the best fighting force the world had ever seen. How many know what that was?

You apparently don't know you are wrong. Maybe German tanks became obsolete in 1941 on Eastern Front but it does not mean such situation persisted till the end of war! In 1942 Germans introduced Tiger tank which outclassed all Soviet tanks (T-34, KV, not mention about older types) and in 1943 they introduced Panther tank which solidified III Reich qualitative advantages over Soviet Union in tanks. Later Soviets tried do catch up Germans in this area by fielding T-34/85 and IS tanks but I don't think they were successful. Anyway Soviets chose to vastly outnumber Germans in tanks and they really achieved this goal. That is also why Soviets won that war.

[ZeeWolf]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

You apparently don't know you are wrong. Maybe German tanks became obsolete in 1941 on Eastern Front but it does not mean such situation persisted till the end of war! In 1942 Germans introduced Tiger tank which outclassed all Soviet tanks (T-34, KV, not mention about older types) and in 1943 they introduced Panther tank which solidified III Reich qualitative advantages over Soviet Union in tanks. Later Soviets tried do catch up Germans in this area by fielding T-34/85 and IS tanks but I don't think they were successful. Anyway Soviets chose to vastly outnumber Germans in tanks and they really achieved this goal. That is also why Soviets won that war.

The Tiger and Panther are proof that what I said is true
As for the Soviet Tanks built before the war in particular the T34 and the KV , both had upgrade capacity far beyond the
Panzer IV. Much of the prewar drag on German tank development was due however to the restrictions of the Versailles treaty.
The Panzer IV success was due to the things Sledgehammer and frinik said.

ZeeWolf

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by schnorchel

As we all know that from G model, PZIV was upgraded its front hull amour to 80mm. but I am curious that why its front turret amour is still merely 50mm till the and of war?

That is a bit more complicated affair!

Let's look at origins of Pz IV Ausf. G. So Pz IV Ausf. F2 version was basically Pz IV Ausf. F1 armed with long barreled 75 mm gun. However Pz IV Ausf. F1 had 50 mm frontal armor everywhere (glacis, turret). Anyway Pz IV Ausf. F2 were produced between March and July 1942 only and in the meantime production switched to next version - Pz IV Ausf. G. Later Pz IV Ausf. G tanks were up-armored by removing 20 mm thick side armor and adding 30 mm applied frontal armor plate instead (to retain tank's weight at the same level) thus increasing its frontal glacis only armor to 80 mm. Pz IV Ausf. G turret still had 50 mm armor! That didn't change till end of war. Last Pz IV versions: Ausf. H and J had the same armor - one significant change was replacement of 50 mm (main plate) +30 mm (appliqué plate) glacis armor configuration with one homogeneous 80 mm thick glacis armor plate.