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Old 02-19-17, 04:24 PM   #1
derstosstrupp
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Default Comprehensive Approach and Attack Tutorial Using Historically-Researched Methods

Hi All,

I have created a comprehensive tutorial which attempts to follow historical procedures as I understand them from studying various sources. I have linked this tutorial to my signature.

This tutorial builds upon the methods I outlined in my previous post:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=222377

There is no need to read the above thread in order to use the tutorial! Please try and provide feedback.

The tutorial focuses on, among many other things, the use of the Auswanderungsverfahren method not as a “shooting” method per se, as originally outlined in my thread, but rather as a data collection method, specifically a method to derive actual target speed. The more time I spent using this method as a shooting method alone, the more I realized how quickly the “solution” degrades as the target’s AOB changes. The disadvantage that arises here is two-fold: your solution may lose significant accuracy unless you shoot immediately after the “1-minute” timing exercise, and, due to the fact that the solution is based on “artificial”, substituted data, your shot is only valid for the specific target you timed/analyzed. The real disadvantage here of course is apparent when you are attacking a convoy and want to attack multiple targets. The German TDC was designed so that the AOB is coupled to scope/UZO bearing, allowing for quick shift of fire in attacking a subsequent target in a convoy. This advantage is rendered useless unless you are working with true target AOB and speed.

My motivation for my original thread - indeed the selling point - was to be able to obtain a gyro angle setting that will impact the target without the need for exact AOB or speed of the target. The reason for this motivation was to allow players to hit their targets without relying on data collection methods, the accuracy of which in many cases is historically inaccurate (plotting with exact WO range, fixed-wire method speed calcs while knowing perfect length-of-target, stadimeter use while knowing perfect target height). Thus the procedures outlined in this tutorial use only that information which was available with any measurable accuracy to a U-boat skipper: target bearing, own speed, and a 0° target AOB.

Please enjoy, and feedback is certainly welcome!

P.S. Can someone please confirm the link is in my sig? I can't even see my sig, can others? In the meantime, here is the link to the tutorial:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwI...ew?usp=sharing

Last edited by derstosstrupp; 02-19-17 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 02-19-17, 05:04 PM   #2
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I don't see any link in your sig but the drive.google link is there so I got the document. Nice presentation!

A little bit of inquiery here. You mention in the overhaul phase, that one should not let the target closer than some 11km and at the same time note down when the AoB is 0*. I play on 1360x768 resolution, 16km atmosphere and on the clearest of days, there is absolutely no way I can tell if AoB would be 0 or 10 degrees at that distance. The graphics just won't allow it. This gives a source for error that is hard, or impossible for me anyway, to work around.

Any words on how to get a more accurate AoB at extreme distances, and on sources for error in general?

Other than that, this document looks tasty and I will read through it! Nice job
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Old 02-19-17, 05:12 PM   #3
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Hi Von Due,

Thanks for the feedback and the heads up about the sig. Not too sure how to rectify that but I'll get there. To answer your question about the 0° AOB being tough to identify, in that case I would go to periscope depth when you have a good idea that you're at least close to 0° AOB. Then keep your scope up and maneuver closer to the point where you can identify exactly that 0° AOB, plot it, and proceed with the rest of the maneuver as normal. Hope this helps, and again thanks for the feedback!
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Old 02-19-17, 05:34 PM   #4
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To put some numbers into what I mean.

On my monitor, I can get a reasonable AoB at a range of around 3000m. Much more than that and things are just too pixelated and unclear and that is for large ships. Smaller ones like passenger/cargos or small merchants I need to get them to around 2500 before I can make out the details for AoB. This goes for the attack periscope with an x12 magnification. The thing is, around 3000 is way closer than the 11,000 you suggested and I really can't see how I can get a good estimate here at ranges beyond 3000.
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Old 02-19-17, 05:48 PM   #5
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Yikes, 3000 m doesn't give you much time! How good are you at estimating AOB by eye? If you can get adept at doing that, which doesn't take long, you can still use the Auswanderungsverfahren and time his bearing change over one minute as in the tutorial. Just remember that the larger the AOB, the less prone to error the Auswanderungsverfahren is. So my suggestion would be to maneuver in from the side so that the target is approaching you at what appears to be a relatively large (Say 60-70°) AOB and begin your timing from there, maybe from a range of 1500 m or so so that AOB is easily estimable.

As far as estimating AOB from long distances in your case, the only thing I can think of is that the 3-bearing AOB Finder wheel (not to be confused with the RAOBF) made by Pisces I believe, which is included in the MAGUI GUI. With this, you take three bearings to the target at equal time intervals while stopped at long-distance and with this wheel you can derive target AOB from the last bearing you took (I think that's how it works).

Hopefully this helps!
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Old 02-20-17, 06:10 AM   #6
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That's looking very well documented ! Congrats for the work and thank you for sharing !
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Old 02-20-17, 06:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendras View Post
That's looking very well documented ! Congrats for the work and thank you for sharing !
Thanks Kendras! Give it a spin and let me know how it works out!
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Old 02-27-17, 10:26 AM   #8
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Bumping this. I see a decent number of views - anyone else have any luck with this or feedback?
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Old 02-27-17, 06:22 PM   #9
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Old 03-02-17, 01:58 AM   #10
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Took the time to read this guide. Very nice. Already kind of set in my ways but this is just very well done.

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Old 03-02-17, 11:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoz View Post
Took the time to read this guide. Very nice. Already kind of set in my ways but this is just very well done.

Thanks Leoz. Hopefully even some old hats can gain something from it too. It will be a "living" document - I plan on keeping it updated as I learn more. I've got Karl-Friedrich Merten's book "Nach Kompaß" coming in the mail, and based on things I've read about it, he talks pretty specifically about approach tactics. So more to come!
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Old 03-09-17, 09:43 PM   #12
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good read
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Old 03-12-17, 01:32 PM   #13
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When I have more time in my life (during this summer for example, I hope !), and also when my mods are all finished, I REALLY would like to learn how to find a firing solution for my torpedoes !

Do you know this thread, and do you think it's useful to read ?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=200846
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Old 09-18-17, 10:46 PM   #14
derstosstrupp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendras View Post
When I have more time in my life (during this summer for example, I hope !), and also when my mods are all finished, I REALLY would like to learn how to find a firing solution for my torpedoes !

Do you know this thread, and do you think it's useful to read ?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=200846
Sorry for the late reply Kendras! I am familiar with the thread, but haven't tried the methods in it. Learning this stuff really boils down to personal taste and what clicks. Try various methods and find what works best for you!
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Old 09-01-18, 11:37 AM   #15
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Bumping this in case it is of interest- see my sig below! Comments/criticism welcome!
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