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Old 06-14-2017, 10:05 PM   #1
yubba
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Default Trying to be sneaky

Well I tested a ssn688 flight 2 doing 10 knots 150ft in mission editor..I was sitting in a Seawolf sonar suite picked it up on tow array 12 miles out narrow band clasiffied no wonder I was getting hosed in the Los Angles. will bring more interesting tid bits when I come aross them..

Last edited by yubba; 06-14-2017 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:00 AM   #2
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Yeah, maybe I'm too conservative, but in my mind, if you're not going 3 knots, you're asking to get caught!
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:56 AM   #3
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I don't have DW (yet!) but is the optimum speed for ones own towed array 5 knots?
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:21 AM   #4
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It depends on what boat you're driving as to what your "silent" speed should be. In a Seawolf or Virginia, you should be doing 5-7 knots, there's no need to go as slow as 3. But in a 688(i), I would recommend 3 knots.

In a Kilo, probably 3 or 4 knots but in a Lada or a Type 212, 5-7 knots as well.

This all assumes Reinforce Alert mod.

Lanzfeld, it depends on the towed array. Its performance stays pretty constant until you get close to washout speed. For the Akula, if my memory serves, they washout around 12 knots I think. American boats have the TB-16 and the TB-23 or TB-29. The TB-16 is a higher speed towed that works up to somewhere between standard and full, but has lower sensitivity. The TB-23/TB-29 work to lower speeds, more like between 2/3 and Standard, but have increased sensitivity.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:23 AM   #5
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Oh wow thanks for the info!
I'm specifically wondering can speed be too slow for the TA to work properly? Like in cold waters
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanzfeld View Post
Oh wow thanks for the info!
I'm specifically wondering can speed be too slow for the TA to work properly? Like in cold waters
You're welcome!

Yes, going too slow can have two major consequences: 1) the towed can drag on the bottom of the ocean if it's shallow enough and you'll have washout, 2) the towed can dip beneath a layer if you're above a layer, which can be a desired behavior, but not if you weren't planning for it lol.

Also, the slower you go, the longer it takes for the towed to turn and straighten if you order a course change. When the towed is turning (re: not straight), you can't trust the data from it. I recommend streaming generally only 25-33% of the length of American toweds, and approximately 220 m for Russian toweds in order to reduce the time it takes for the towed to straighten.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPSchazly View Post
I recommend streaming generally only 25-33% of the length of American toweds
I second that.
From my observation, there is no benefit at all from extending the array by 100%, and ~30% gives you multiple advantages:

- Full sensor sensivity (from my experience)
- Can retract quickly in case of emergency
- Can go slow without dipping under a layer as Chazly said
- Way quicker to resolve ambiguous contacts
- 100% is for try-hards!
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:48 AM   #8
yubba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPSchazly View Post
You're welcome!

Yes, going too slow can have two major consequences: 1) the towed can drag on the bottom of the ocean if it's shallow enough and you'll have washout, 2) the towed can dip beneath a layer if you're above a layer, which can be a desired behavior, but not if you weren't planning for it lol.

Also, the slower you go, the longer it takes for the towed to turn and straighten if you order a course change. When the towed is turning (re: not straight), you can't trust the data from it. I recommend streaming generally only 25-33% of the length of American toweds, and approximately 220 m for Russian toweds in order to reduce the time it takes for the towed to straighten.
Thank you for taking the time to make these,, very helpful,, in giving CW a run for it's money but we will never beat the graphics ,, drool

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Old 06-15-2017, 11:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yubba View Post
Thank you for taking the time to make these,, very helpful,, in giving CW a run for it's money but we will never beat the graphics ,, drool
You're welcome they're both good games and quite different games haha
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:40 AM   #10
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Hello, two questions:
1. why put in relation ship's speed and water temperature?
2. what is the undesider behaviour if the TA sinks below the layer?
Thank you
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:09 AM   #11
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1) it doesn't matter
2) No. Sometimes this is your deliberate action (for example on surface unit).

When i want to "look" under layer i have to stream TA to almost maximum lenght. Also speed of my boat should be not too high. During game i often change depth of TA antenna.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:49 AM   #12
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Hello p7p8, thank you for your answer but I know that. The two questions remain and arose reading the prior posts in this thread. Water temperature will be related to SSP ok, but still... Theorically the TA can run into unwanted place like enemy ships/subs propellers or similar but I don't think that's what FPSSchazly was addressing.
1. why put in relation ship's speed and water temperature (in regards of TA usage)?
2. what is the undesired behaviour if the TA sinks below the layer?
Thank you
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:02 AM   #13
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I think FPSchazly had in mind that if you want to search above layer but your speed is too low, TA can sink benath layer and this is undesired for your action.
(if you miss moment when TA goes under layer).
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:21 PM   #14
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Yes, it's only undesired if you weren't planning for it to go underneath the layer or if you didn't know it could go beneath the layer.

In relation to temperature, I believe Lanzfeld was referring to the game Cold Waters and not water with low temperatures.
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:01 AM   #15
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To clarify the responses in regards to TA sinking bellow the layer when you're searching above, the downside is that the sonar returns are heavily influenced by what kind of layer it actually is.
For example, you could be looking for a surface threat, and not detect it until very close, because your TA was dipping bellow the layer and the sound from the surface getting to your TA bellow the layer was muffled (when the SSP is higher above the layer then bellow).

There are a number of layers with different properties modeled in DW. So this explanation is rather simplistic.


EDIT: Actually chazly made a great video detailing what I was talking about:

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