"SH3Gen" Campaign enhancement (version 0.6.0)

[GlobalExplorer]

Originally Posted by Sgian Dubh

Is this compatible with RUB+Harbortraffic+SHIIcommander?

It is compatible with RUB 1.45, HT 1.47, IUB until 1.02, all of the "german" modpacks I know of, and generally everything until last month. The new modpacks I have not tried, but probably work. Please read the first message of this thread if you want more information. I am not running any tests anymore myself, so you are invited to post first results.

Originally Posted by lurker_hlb3

GE
Is it possible to make this work on "single missions" ????
Leigh

I don't know, it might be possible, but I am not working on it. So far I don't have interest in single missions, but thanks for this suggestion.

[GlobalExplorer]

Originally Posted by JScones

Anyway, I'm just thinking on the fly here...it's 2am...sleepy-bye time.

My eyes started to bleed after the first paragraph ..

At least I understand that you are talking about a tool that inserts mod data into ShIII file structures, intelligently resolving conflicts and merging stuff as far as possible. That would make a lot of people happy, especially if you released it as a dll that others can link to.

I think this also might be more realistic than the community / opensource approach, from my experience. Reason is there are too many languages around, Sh3Gen is C#, Sh3Cmdr is Delphi, ref does C++ (I think), I also remember having seen Python, Pearl, VB6 and so on. In fact the only major languages I haven't heard of in a ShIII project is Java and VB.NET,

So far I see no one who would organize such a great project. I could contribute with some good classes for a number of filetypes, but I make use of an extensive classlibrary thats in C#, so no way I am going to port it to another language.

Moreover, much more than I dislike releasing tools is releasing code, because you usually end up with answering a lot of beginners questions, while the pros don't need your code anyway.

But as I said, if someone would start an opensource project, I would try to contribute, and help. Also don't forget that ShIV will be there one day, and we might be better prepared next time.

Originally Posted by ref

The hard part wil be putting away personal pride and varoius jelousy issues
Ref

It's generally good to see that there are a lot of experienced programmers around here, and I have not experienced any of these issues among them.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by JScones

...

You know, what would be perfect, is to maintain all the individual mod files on one central server. The player would, from time to time, simply run a client/web front end which would present them with a list of all stored mods. They'd simply click whatever they wanted (like online shopping really) and submit. The front end would interact with the back end server database, gather or build the individual files required (based on stored rules/procedures), and download them to the user's machine, in, of course, JSGME ready format.

Of course, by the time this was completed, we'd be playing SH5...

Better yet, a Subversion repository that all SH3 mod developers regularly commit to, complete with changelogs and all kinds of other fun things.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by JScones

...

Anyway, I'm just thinking on the fly here...it's 2am...sleepy-bye time.

It's actually an excellent idea and something I had thought about at one point.

Kind of like an intelligent `diff` utility for configuration file management.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

...
Moreover, much more than I dislike releasing tools is releasing code, because you usually end up with answering a lot of beginners questions, while the pros don't need your code anyway.

I prefer to release early, and often. I find I get plenty of useful bug reports and once in a while, even a patch.

But it depends on the tool's target audience, of course.

In either case, I don't think user feedback due to source release should be considered a negative.

I'd also contest that those familiar with programming don't appreciate access to work that's already done. I'd much rather contribute to an existing project than to do it all from scratch. It might even be the difference between doing something cool and not bothering at all. Sometimes you just need someone to lay the foundation.

Of course, as you said, with SH3 everyone's picked a language most favored and each tool is written in a different language.

I used Perl because I'm a Linux/UNIX professional by trade, and Perl is the most effective tool for processing stuff like plain text configuration files of large sizes, like the Campaign_RND.mis file. The only reason I hadn't released my code is it's not documented and thus nearly useless to anyone else, not to mention that few, if any Perl programmers, are actually lurking around here.

Anyway...

[GlobalExplorer]

Originally Posted by jasonb885

In either case, I don't think user feedback due to source release should be considered a negative.

You sound like you might have the patience that's needed to organize such an effort, which unfortunately I have not.

Originally Posted by jasonb885

It's actually an excellent idea and something I had thought about at one point.

Kind of like an intelligent `diff` utility for configuration file management.

Yes if Jaesons mod-enabler would work like a CVS for mods, that would be cool.

Originally Posted by jasonb885

I'd also contest that those familiar with programming don't appreciate access to work that's already done. I'd much rather contribute to an existing project than to do it all from scratch. It might even be the difference between doing something cool and not bothering at all. Sometimes you just need someone to lay the foundation.

I am absolutely in favour of open source, and I see the advantages. But I also know the problems .. But as said before, if someone would lay a foundation, a lot of people would contribute, and generally these projects get better over time.

Moreover we could have these connections and infrastructures in place when SHIV arrives, which would be another plus. SHIII modding has become a bit chaotic recently and many people are confused. We don't want to let this become another Morrowind, do we?

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

...
I am absolutely in favour of open source, and I see the advantages. But I also know the problems .. But as said before, if someone would lay a foundation, a lot of people would contribute, and generally these projects get better over time.

Moreover we could have these connections and infrastructures in place when SHIV arrives, which would be another plus. SHIII modding has become a bit chaotic recently and many people are confused. We don't want to let this become another Morrowind, do we?

What happened with Morrowind? (Seriously, never played.)

[JScones]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

It's generally good to see that there are a lot of experienced programmers around here, and I have not experienced any of these issues among them.

Yeah. I agree. I don't know where ref is coming from with that one. I can't think of any programmer that I've interacted with here that's demonstrated any of those traits. Indeed, from my experience we've all tried to work together however we can with our individual projects.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by jasonb885

Kind of like an intelligent `diff` utility for configuration file management.

In essence, yes, that's all it is.

[KptnLt Eric Karle]

Well, I just wanted to say that I missed this thread when it started and then stopped playing for a while and have only started again in the last 2 weeks. When I noticed this, it sounded perfect but I was a little apprehensive about trying it as I was afraid it might mess up my campaign (currently 11 patrols - March 1941). Anyway tonight as I was starting my 11th, I decided to bite the bullet and try it and all I can say is WOW. Thanks GlobalExplorer for all the work you put into this. It has made a huge differance to my game and added a whole new level of immersion to this ever-improving sim. The mods that have been released by this community have so fundamently improved this game, and this has taken that improvement to a new level. Thanks again

[DeepSix]

I'm back after a hiatus, too, and this just looks terrific! Thanks, GlobalExplorer, can't wait to try it out!

[Kitzbuell]

"Now to the things that make it hard for me / or any other modder. I see that a fair amount of people have downloaded the beta from my site, but very rarely I hear from them again. Some mailed me when they had problems but didn't bother to tell me if my solutions work. I am not angry at anyone, it's just not very motivating this way - and I have other projects that need my attention."

This quote directly caused me to register on SubSim if only to respond with an expression of my gratitude for all of your efforts. I'm speaking directly to Global Explorer at this moment as he has driven the efforts with SH3Gen. However, since I now use many of the mods all of you have contributed to this particular game. You, and those of your ilk, are the ones that keep these games from growing tiresome and thereby being abandoned.

I am not by any sense of anyone's imagination a programmer. Far from it! My last experience with programming was over 20 years ago in college with an Into to BASIC course (the garnerred information of which I've not used since. I am actually very new to modding but have become an avid follower. What I am is a long term computer gamer with a seat of the pants background in building and upgrading computers I've owned. I began reading entries in this forum only a few months ago and found the experience more than a bit addictive. The enjoyment I've gained from reading and, eventually, adding your various mods to my program has been about the only thing that has stopped me from constantly playing SH3 is my free time.

I purchased and installed SH3 early last fall and played incessantly until late November. I enjoyed the game play immensely, however some of the weaknesses in the original software began to get to me and I found myself growing tired of the game play. The game was good enough that, after a month's absence from it, I began visiting the forums related to SH3 and discovered this particular diamond amongst the gems. I began installing many of your mods one by one and, low and behold, SH3 game play became exciting, more enjoyable and a more enveloping experience than it had ever been previously for me.

I am one of those who have downloaded yet not installed SH3Gen as yet but am extremely anxious to do so. I am currently on my 13th patrol with a low level settings for realism. I'm still trying to learn some of the techniques needed for more realistic play. Also, though I attempt to follow and understand the specifics of the conversations here you folks are speaking completely over my head. No matter. I still find what you're able to create and how the process unfolds to be fascinating. I've received nothing but enjoyment from the fruits of all of your labors.

The only thing holding me back from decompressing the SH3Gen software and installing it is I'm a bit timid of not installing it properly and wiping out my current records and/or corrupting the original SH3 software, SH3Commander, etc. I'm only waiting to be sure I understand the methodology completely for the proper installation of the SH3Gen software with the other add-ons I'm currently using. However, I'm too anxious to wait much longer.

In my game experience, I've been lucky thus far. Without using SH3Gen and employing only the historical dates for certain naval vessels recorded as being in specific ports, I've managed to sink the King George V in Scapa Flow and a light cruiser in Lock Ewe. I've used the same data to visit Scapa Flow and other ports in search of these prized targets during the aforementioned dates and found the particular harbors vacant but for the myriad of destroyers and other defensive vessels patroling the wars for interlopers of my kind.

I just wanted to thank each and every one of you that develope these mods and greatly improve the game play for schmucks like myself. Once I install and use SH3Gen I'd be more than happy to add my SH3 game play experiences and critique to this worthy discussion.

[GlobalExplorer]

Havent been able to post here, since I am in Spain right now, and internet access is limited. Work on the standing orders features is progressing slowly, I hope Brad will make more progress in the next weeks, as he didnt have much time recently. Its going to be included in 0.6, which I hope to release somewhen in May (might get later however). But its going to come 100%, and will be a neat, streamlined feature that comes at absolutely no price. I still need the edited data, I have to download and test the new campaign mods, and then there is still more work for me with the german translation and program logic of course.

Has anybody tested the current version with GW and NYGM campaign mods, as well as the integrated version by Rubini? I see no complaints, so I assume its working already.

For the future I have also been thinking about more advanced features, particularly "virtual" Uboats and a radio message generator, but this would come at the price af not being totally compatible with other radio log mods, which I am not completely happy with.

@Kitzbuell: God idea to register and a very good read. You should post more I also am more of the lurker type as long as I am not directly participating in mods, but the community here is, as most people will agree, one of the best. I also think you should try installing Sh3Gen, as the worst thing that can happen to you is loss of a single save game (not that this ever happens to my knowledge), apart from that it doesnt change anything in your mods. Maybe wait for the new Sh3Cmdr, so you dont have to install the fix from my site.

GE

[VonHelsching]

Quoting a PM I sent to GE after he asked me to elaborate further on my initial suggestions:

First of all I would like to congratulate you for the concept of the application. It is excellent and I cannot imagine using SH3 without it.

Sorry it took me so long to answer, but I wanted my thought to mature, in order to give to you something useful. My initial post about "luring" the player into hot spots was just a wild shot in the dark; just an idea for you to elaborate. But I made some second thoughts that go beyond this point. And the thing that made me think further was the Grey Wolves mod.

What I finally think is a good idea (don't know if it is doable though) is for SH3Gen expanding not only in single missions (see a/), but a series of missions that represent a chapter in U-boat history (see /b).

a/ SH3Gen may incorporate into the map small / short chapters of history like the sinking of the Bismarc. SH3Cdr would make sure that the player would be at the right place at the right time (with days in base) and SH3Gen would provide a very nice "intelligence report" of the situation, prety much like it can do now. But; Sh3Gen could additionally provide a1/ the course of the Bismarc, TFs etc. in order to give a dynamic view and a2/ provide additional maps which would update the action (don't know if this would be possible without restarting, though)

b/SH3Gen could incorporate / facilitate a capmpaign that lasts more than a mission; ie a series of missions. This could be done for Pauckenschlag. Here, SH3Gen could really blow the minds of the hardcore realism simmers by providing not only the course of action, but addidional historic data like u-boat sinkings (on the map with the number of u-boat, and the date). This could be expanded for allied sinkings. I'm not into realism much, but I think this historic aspect would be much appreciated. I understand that this is a lot of work, but I'm sure that a lot of people would volunteer to pinpoint X and Ys for every u-boat on the map.

These are my first thoughts. I hope they helped.

[zzsteven]

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Havent been able to post here, since I am in Spain right now, and internet access is limited. Work on the standing orders features is progressing slowly, I hope Brad will make more progress in the next weeks, as he didnt have much time recently. Its going to be included in 0.6, which I hope to release somewhen in May (might get later however). But its going to come 100%, and will be a neat, streamlined feature that comes at absolutely no price. I still need the edited data, I have to download and test the new campaign mods, and then there is still more work for me with the german translation and program logic of course.

Has anybody tested the current version with GW and NYGM campaign mods, as well as the integrated version by Rubini? I see no complaints, so I assume its working already.

For the future I have also been thinking about more advanced features, particularly "virtual" Uboats and a radio message generator, but this would come at the price af not being totally compatible with other radio log mods, which I am not completely happy with.

@Kitzbuell: God idea to register and a very good read. You should post more I also am more of the lurker type as long as I am not directly participating in mods, but the community here is, as most people will agree, one of the best. I also think you should try installing Sh3Gen, as the worst thing that can happen to you is loss of a single save game (not that this ever happens to my knowledge), apart from that it doesnt change anything in your mods. Maybe wait for the new Sh3Cmdr, so you dont have to install the fix from my site.

GE

SH3Gen is working well with GW v1.0 on my computer, no glitch's.

zz