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Old 12-08-2018, 03:11 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc View Post
Friends. A voter have his or her reason for the choice they make at the voting station.

Reason's like:

The politician is handsome/attractive
or
We in our family have always voted on...
(I have met/seen many with those attitude)

And of course then it's those who have a more strict relationship to the politicians or party they put their vote on.

Markus
All that imo are splendid illustration why such voters should not be allowed to vote. The best service they can contribute to the communal wellbeing is not to vote if their motives for their choice are not more and are not better than just this ^. The problem is the voting system can only function if two preconditions are fulfilled: people are altruistic and put their own wellbeing below the communal wellbeing, and 2.) they are competent in the matter they are voting on. The first thing is mostly never the case, and the second is mostly never the case. Most people are dilletanttes on economic, financial, social-political and so forth issues. But they demand a say on organising a state's leadership for a hundred million peopole...??? Are they kdding me??


In return, polticians claim they can oversee all this and can responsibly and competently navigate and administrate these task for the same state with 100 million people...?? Are they kidding me as well...??? The human brain cannot even for a figurative illustration of numbers beyond around the mid-20s range, beyond that it already must use immense cognitive tricks.


Its like giving hooligans whose only argument for why they favour their football club over the other one is that it is the club in their neighbourhgood and it is tradition, the key to the treasury of the nation and the seat in the president's office.

You do not let the passengers in a plane fly the plane. You have pilots for that task. And there is the real problem. Thje bigger the plane, the more difficult and complex the cockpit tasks. Its a difference to veen just taxi in an Airbvus A380, and in a Cessna 172.

Thats why I am against deep state and big states with central governments, and argue for small self-amdinsitrating entitie sinstead that are diemnsioned such that thos eliving within them cna mostyl oversee what is going on in them, and so can form educated opinions on what is going on, and can see what consequences oth people'S deeds and decisions and their own deeds anmd decisions have. This is not possible in states with millions and millions, and such states are so complex that transparency is only an utopic idela to strive for, but that is completely out of reach. And so the scum takes over and abuses the invitation to the max.

The bigger in size and the more complex in structure an administrational organisation is, the easier it is to hide incompetence and corruption and responsibility in its inner labyrinth. And I can absolutely not imagine any way how to avoid this dilemma except going much, much, much, much smaller.
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:46 PM   #32
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I have to tell you a story related to this

"We in our family have always voted on..."

It was in the 90's and it happened just before the Swedish election.

I was on my way home from my adult education. I jumped on the bus.

Had barely sat down when someone tapped me on the shoulder.

I turned around to see who it was. It was an elderly woman about 60-70 years old-Not sure.

She leaned toward me and said

- Are you going to vote in the election

- Of course, I said

From then on and 10 minutes on she
came up with a stream of verbal vomiting over her favorite party, the Social Democrats:

And she ended her speech with

Never again I say to you, will I put a vote on that party.
There was not much I could say to her.

Now we jump ahead some month after the election.

Again I was on my way home and sitting on the bus.

On this bus this day, was also this elderly woman.
She looked at me and started talking to me.

- Haven't I seen you before, she said.

Yes, we were talking before the election, about voting I said

- Oh that's true, she said, and continued.

- So did you vote.

Yes I said

So did I, I put my vote on my beloved party the Social democrats which we always have done in our family she said.

The first word that came up in my mind was

conditional action

Some years later I saw a documentary about Pavlovs dogs.

When I saw that program I came to think on this elderly woman on the bus.

Markus
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:27 PM   #33
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As I said, all preaching, all argument, never, even once, a simple discussion.
Right Steve, not even once! It's totally not an exaggeration at all. Yep every post I have ever made since joining the forum back in 2005, nearly 19,000 of them, have been designed to meet with your disapproval.

As for telling people to mind their own business, damn straight I did and I may do so again in the future if I feel that it is appropriate.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:19 PM   #34
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Right Steve, not even once! It's totally not an exaggeration at all. Yep every post I have ever made since joining the forum back in 2005, nearly 19,000 of them, have been designed to meet with your disapproval.

As for telling people to mind their own business, damn straight I did and I may do so again in the future if I feel that it is appropriate.
Is there enough oxygen up there?
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Old 12-09-2018, 02:59 AM   #35
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Right Steve, not even once! It's totally not an exaggeration at all. Yep every post I have ever made since joining the forum back in 2005, nearly 19,000 of them, have been designed to meet with your disapproval.
Of course it's an exaggeration. When commenting on general things you're as neutral as anybody. The doesn't change the fact that your political comments are always of the "I'm right and you're stupid" variety. The hardcore right-wing philosophy shows through, and in that regard maybe you could point me to some real discussion?

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As for telling people to mind their own business, damn straight I did and I may do so again in the future if I feel that it is appropriate.
It's an open forum. Anybody can comment as they please.
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:34 AM   #36
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Of course it's an exaggeration. When commenting on general things you're as neutral as anybody. The doesn't change the fact that your political comments are always of the "I'm right and you're stupid" variety. The hardcore right-wing philosophy shows through, and in that regard maybe you could point me to some real discussion?


It's an open forum. Anybody can comment as they please.

You know Steve for a guy who is constantly saying that he doesn't know anything for sure you use a lot of absolute words against me like "always" and "never".

The way I see it my comments in this thread are usually made in response to the "hardcore left-wing philosophy" that pervades it. Now you can go ahead and cherry pick them to fit your narrative I guess but I will continue to post my feelings regardless of your identity politics name calling.

We need more conservative voices on this forum not less.
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:40 PM   #37
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You know Steve for a guy who is constantly saying that he doesn't know anything for sure you use a lot of absolute words against me like "always" and "never".
You could well be right. That said, I also don't trust people who act as if they do know something when it is apparent that what they "know" is actually opinion and not knowledge.

Quote:
The way I see it my comments in this thread are usually made in response to the "hardcore left-wing philosophy" that pervades it. Now you can go ahead and cherry pick them to fit your narrative I guess but I will continue to post my feelings regardless of your identity politics name calling.
What exactly is my narrative? As I see it "hard-core" anything is a bad thing. Assuming that the other side is automatically evil does nothing to help solve the problems. I notice you carefully ignored my comments on your knee-jerk "must have voted for Hillary" reactions to comments against Trump.

On the other hand you might be surprised to find that I agree with you on a lot of this. The Left really is wasting a lot of time attacking rather than looking for solutions. But then so is The Right, and what bothers me is that both sides are exactly alike in that regard. I don't see much discussion from either side, just attacks.

Quote:
We need more conservative voices on this forum not less.
Conservative voices, yes. Right-Wing (or Left-Wing) diatribe, not so much.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:38 PM   #38
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"Conservatism is only as good as what it conserves." - Hayek
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