SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Current crop of subsims & naval games > Wolfpack
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-16, 01:05 PM   #1
Onkel Neal
Born to Run Silent
 
Onkel Neal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Cougar Trap, Texas
Posts: 21,274
Downloads: 534
Uploads: 224


Icon1 Pappenburg gauge and cryptic markings

Ok, one thing has me stumped: after our visit to U-995, we are trying to understand what the markings are on the Pappenburg gauge, and why there are two of these gauges. Is one for the each scope? What do the marks mean? thanks!

Big images, easy to see the detail
http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen1.jpg

http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen2.jpg

http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen3.jpg

http://www.wolfpackgame.com/img/research/pappen4.jpg

Also,why would the spacing be so uneven? On the left gauge, there's a big difference between 5 and 6 and then 6 and 7....?
__________________
SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web
Onkel Neal is online   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-16, 03:21 PM   #2
Dowly
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 25,004
Downloads: 32
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
If I'd have to guess, the left one shows the depth in relation to the periscopes.

The right one seems to show the same for other parts of the boat. For example, on the right side there's a conning tower (brücke) mark at -9,7m. So, to get the boat submerged fully, the water level inside the tube would have to raise above that mark.

No idea what the markings on the left side mean.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-16, 04:51 PM   #3
Schroeder
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Banana Republic of Germany
Posts: 6,170
Downloads: 62
Uploads: 0
Default

It seems that it shows markings of the hight of several parts of the boat.
Kiel = Keel
Bug = Bow
Heck = Stern
Brücke = Bridge (the lookout platform of the conning tower in this case IIRC)
My best guess is that this was used to go decks awash or just submerge certain parts of the sub...I could be wrong though.
However I don't get it that on the right it's one tube with two very different scales...
__________________
Putting Germ back into Germany.
Schroeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-16, 06:23 PM   #4
Aktungbby
Gefallen Engel U-666
 
Aktungbby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy
Posts: 27,706
Downloads: 22
Uploads: 0


Default Brückes awash??!!

^Just guessing wildly here: but the U 995 was schnorkel equipped; one of the marking on the Pappenburg guage is "Brücke" In German: 'bridge' but also in Norwegian (she surrendered at Tronheim Norway and was taken over as the "Kaura' in use for 15 years.)...Brucke in Norwegian is also 'exhaust'...related to the schnorkel??? Since the notation has an umlout I would guess German notation for decks awash to enable the late radar array to remain above water in the perilous end days of WWII; a precise notation at -6.6 to -7 meters if not also the schorkel ( "he who schnorkels well-lives") in the stress related atmosphere of a late kreigsmarine zentrelle, a harried planesman would have an instant memory refresher for a 'correct micro depth adjustments. FuMO 65 Hohentwiel U1 Type F431 C1 for type VII Uboats was for aircraft detection. No need to stay fully surfaced awaiting some Liberator PB4Y's centimetric leigh-lighted doom??!!
__________________

"Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"
Aktungbby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 03:03 AM   #5
Dowly
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 25,004
Downloads: 32
Uploads: 0


Default

While searching for more info on the papenberg, I came across this site.

There's a user by the name of 'Tore' who served onboard KMN Kaura (U-995), KMN Kya (U-926) and KMN Kinn (U-1202). Might be a good idea to ask him, if he knows more about the papenberg.

He also gave this warning about the U-995:
Quote:
We have many times warned against copying the details in this submarine as many details are not original.


Anyways, here's a thread where he answers questions about the boats:
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=921.0
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 03:29 AM   #6
Schroeder
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Banana Republic of Germany
Posts: 6,170
Downloads: 62
Uploads: 0
Default

If I had known it's called Papenberg and not Pappenburg I might have had more success in finding something.

But we've been on the right track. The german Wikipedia article says that it was indeed used for submerging just parts of the boat. It was quicker to react to pressure changes than the normal depth gauges and was therefore better for the fine adjustments needed to keep the boat exactly at the required depth.

The guys at uboat.net were a bit more precise than us though:http://uboat.net/forums/read.php?3,9...2541#msg-92541

__________________
Putting Germ back into Germany.
Schroeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 03:35 AM   #7
Dowly
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 25,004
Downloads: 32
Uploads: 0


Default

And this is why we need grammar nazis.
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 04:31 AM   #8
Catfish
Dipped Squirrel Operative
 
Catfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky
Posts: 16,880
Downloads: 38
Uploads: 0


Icon12

Ah too late but the information in Uboatnet is what you looked for.

And b.t.w. everyone knows that it's the "Papenberg"

__________________


>^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.
Catfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 06:51 AM   #9
Schroeder
Navy Seal
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Banana Republic of Germany
Posts: 6,170
Downloads: 62
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Ah too late but the information in Uboatnet is what you looked for.

And b.t.w. everyone knows that it's the "Papenberg"

Silence you Untertriebtauchzelle!

__________________
Putting Germ back into Germany.
Schroeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 08:10 AM   #10
Onkel Neal
Born to Run Silent
 
Onkel Neal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Cougar Trap, Texas
Posts: 21,274
Downloads: 534
Uploads: 224


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
And this is why we need grammar nazis.
You mean, "spelling" nazis?
__________________
SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web
Onkel Neal is online   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 09:08 AM   #11
Aktungbby
Gefallen Engel U-666
 
Aktungbby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy
Posts: 27,706
Downloads: 22
Uploads: 0


Default It's all about the UMLAUT; From a dutch 'Snuiver' 2 a Norwegian 'snortvalve'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aktungbby View Post
^Just guessing wildly here: but the U 995 was schnorkel equipped; one of the marking on the Pappenburg guage is "Brücke" In German: 'bridge' but also in Norwegian (she surrendered at Tronheim Norway and was taken over as the "Kaura' in use for 15 years.)...Brucke in Norwegian is also 'exhaust'...related to the schnorkel??? Since the notation has an umlout I would guess German notation for decks awash to enable the late radar array to remain above water in the perilous end days of WWII; a precise notation at -6.6 to -7 meters if not also the schorkel ( "he who schnorkels well-lives") in the stress related atmosphere of a late kreigsmarine zentrelle, a harried planesman would have an instant memory refresher for a 'correct micro depth adjustments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dowly View Post
There's a user by the name of 'Tore' who served onboard KMN Kaura (U-995), KMN Kya (U-926) and KMN Kinn (U-1202). Might be a good idea to ask him, if he knows more about the papenberg.

He also gave this warning about the U-995:


Anyways, here's a thread where he answers questions about the boats:
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=921.0
WOW A close hit on the first pass; So not the radar array?!!! the 'snort'! I suspected some makeover and grammer modifications as Tore indicates. How much is still 'German" and how much is "Norwegian"? Tore:
Quote:
Snorting (oddly, British slang for the schnorkel) was in general a challenge to the people on watch. Trim and correct handling of the hydroplanes was very important.
If the snortvalve shut, the big diesel would suck out the air in the sub in seconds and the people would suffer. The cook had a hard time, one minute the kettles simmered in a second it could start boiling like crazy. In my day snorting was a novelty and in order to get experience we were ordered to test out the boat by sailing submerged from the westcoast of Norway passing Iceland to Greenland and back some 27 days submerged, which at that time was a record (in the norwegian navy). ( "he who schnorkels well-lives")??!!
We got a lot of experience and ideas for improvement. One of the main problems was the garbage of which 46 men produce substancial in the course of 27 days. Rottening garbage is not a pleasant thing and particulary not on board a sub. We got desperate and decided to put it in bags ( before the plastic ages) and load the torpedotubes whereupon we fired. Of course the bags bursted and the torpedopeople didn`t like it much....Remember space was limited. It was more important to have place for some cases of whisky.
No doubt with the smell of 27 days submerged and all that 'whiskey...those Vikings needed a 'snort' (my dad's word for a Scotch-neat) themselves! A minor edit: Now that Papenburg is properly spelled; an interesting procedure emerges I had not paid attention to previously: http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB/KTBNotesDiving.htm
Quote:
9. When the desired down angle is achieved (normally 12-15° but can go as high as 30 ° in a crash dive - at more than 40° acid may leak from battery cells) vent valve for ballast tank 1 is opened. 10. Simultaneously, the planes are brought to neutral position. Shut off Papenberg depth gauge at 18 meters and precision depth gauge passing 20 meters. 11. Quick diving tank is blown just short of empty to avoid releasing bubbles.
One (tube on left) is the Papenburg gauge/ the other-with the precision markings- is 'the precision depth gauge'? OP should be retitled: "Precision depth gauge cryptic markings"
__________________

"Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

Last edited by Aktungbby; 09-23-16 at 09:56 AM.
Aktungbby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-16, 09:22 AM   #12
Dowly
Lucky Jack
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 25,004
Downloads: 32
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkel Neal View Post
You mean, "spelling" nazis?
Close enough!
Dowly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-16, 03:31 PM   #13
Chromatix
Watch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 26
Downloads: 11
Uploads: 0
Default

I've got it:

The left gauge is for precise depth when shallow. It shows the depth to keel under the command room, and the hull outline gives a reference to determine which parts of the superstructure are submerged. This should be familiar from SH3. The nonlinear scale is due to water pressure acting against a reference air mass; as the volume of air is reduced by pressure, additional pressure has less effect.

The right gauge is for *angle* of the boat, with the middle scale probably showing degrees. The vertical orientation is confusing for people used to spirit-levels and other types of horizontal "bubble" gauge. The extra scales to left and right are correction factors to determine the depth of the foredeck and aft keel (when angled up), and the afterdeck and fore keel (when angled down), relative to the keel depth shown on the left gauge.
__________________
In a submarine battle, you can be: on fire, underwater, under fire, & taking on water... simultaneously.
Chromatix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-16, 05:04 PM   #14
Onkel Neal
Born to Run Silent
 
Onkel Neal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: Cougar Trap, Texas
Posts: 21,274
Downloads: 534
Uploads: 224


Default

Nice, thanks for that!
__________________
SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web
Onkel Neal is online   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.