The types VIIB,VIIC,VIIC-41 from 1939 to 1945.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by v-i-c-

When you take the models of Simon alias NZSnowman (who is well known in the U-Boat community for his extremely detailed works and the necessary high amount of research) and simply reduce the polycount, shouldn't you at least show the minimum respect by giving credit to him?

Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim?

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I looked at NZSnowman's FUMB-26 3D model, and it has whole sections that Wise's one doesn't have. They're quite clearly different.


Where are the wires on the bottom on Wise's model? They aren't there, as the two models are different.

The similarities between them are obviously a result of the two models being of the same thing.

On first reading I would tend to agree.

Originally Posted by Sphere

Personally for V_I_C
V_I_C You are mistaken. I am not engaged in a piracy and assignment of another's works. Yes I saw a theme where the author spread screenshots and links on model. The only thing that at us with NZSnowman identical, is a small horn framework. This decision was easier for modelling and in game polygonal loading less.
I made all models in Inventor10 and AutoCad2007. From zero. Only drawings and photos of real devices have been used.
Here a screen from the program inventor10. Will pay the attention to the stack of parts. In it there are no import pieces of models.

The matter would appear to be settled as far as I am concerned but I could well be wrong. Lack of any further evidence only leads me to remind ALL modders that it is the expectation of the forum owner and the greater community at large that SubSims 'recommended modding etiquette' be adhered to.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115983

Fair winds and following seas.

[Wise]

It is good, Jimbuna, that you have paid attention to this problem. You urge to follow the rules SubSims 'recommended modding etiquette'. And Sphere, in my opinion, have proved that he doesn't plagiarize. It means that he didn't violate rules of modding-etiquette. But, mister v-i-c- has still not brought any evidence for the charges. Is it normal? If you as the representative of administration of a forum, were the witness of this problem here, I ask you to take this situation under the control. Exercise the power to demand from mister v-i-c- of the proof. Or apologies. Here, analogically to the charges, i.e. publicly.

[Jimbuna]

I have asked if there is any evidence to substantiate the original claim and await a response.

Should no further evidence be offered I would hope than an honourable person would admit to said fact and offer an apology.

I am not in a position to demand anything of anyone but I am in a position of potential scrutiny and responsibility with the aim of ensuring anything posted is not out of step with the forum rules.

Issues like the one above are few and far between thankfully so I would ask everyone to demonstrate a level of patience in order that matters can be resolved to everyones satisfaction.

[U505995]

Once this mod is finished I will release terror on the North Atlantic with the new VII's from the convoy routes of the far north to the eastern seaboard of the US. Just as I have done with the improved type IX models. I can already sense the merchantman trembling in their bunks. keep up the good work!

[Wise]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I have asked if there is any evidence to substantiate the original claim and await a response.

Should no further evidence be offered I would hope than an honourable person would admit to said fact and offer an apology.

I have suggested it to be noble a week ago...
Well, you are right. we will wait a week more.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Sphere

Personally for V_I_C
V_I_C You are mistaken. I am not engaged in a piracy and assignment of another's works. Yes I saw a theme where the author spread screenshots and links on model. The only thing that at us with NZSnowman identical, is a small horn framework. This decision was easier for modelling and in game polygonal loading less.
I made all models in Inventor10 and AutoCad2007. From zero. Only drawings and photos of real devices have been used.
Here a screen from the program inventor10. Will pay the attention to the stack of parts. In it there are no import pieces of models.

Good response, thank you for providing this and not escalating the situation. Your next beer is on me.

Neal

[Wise]

Originally Posted by v-i-c-

NZSnowman wrote it to me before I wrote the posting, that's the reason why I saw this thread. He thinks 2 of the models are reduced versions of his work.

This, of course, changes everything
If the NZSnowman thinks, so, have all bases for accusations. Right?
He thinks or he is sure?
Where, eventually, proofs?
Where himself, your NZSnowman?
Let will come here and prove, that Sphere - plagiarist and have appropriated his work.
Adults behave like children.

[Wise]

I can show mesh from Sphere. I never saw mesh from NZSnowman. Sphere! If you have a mesh from NZSnowman, show, please.
There is more. Look at other models which have shown Sphere. NZSnowman did them too? If NZSnowman didn't do them, Is not that the argument, that Sphere is able to make an extremely detailed model of their own? If he is able to work without assistance why to him to appropriate others works?


Mesh from Sphere.





It is enough?
You can show mesh from NZSnowman?

[Wise]

Originally Posted by v-i-c-

Anyone can make detailed models – even untalented people like me can do that, that proves exactly nothing.

It seems to me, in attempts of ridiculous excuses you have reached to the point of full absurdity. If you consider that every untalented person is capable to make detailed models, then why you together with a NZSnowman accuse Sphere in plagiarism?
I stop this ridiculous dialogue.
Listen, Sphere. Perhaps, has come it is time to leave to us with you from here? So in the future we weren't accused of theft and didn't demand the credits for what we didn't take..

[Fahnenbohn]

@ v-i-c : If someone has already modeled the FuMB device, why anothers couldn't do it also ? If you want to accuse Sphere to have plagiarized NZSnowman's work, then you have to demonstrate polygon by polygon that it's the same model.

@ Sphere : Why do you build so detailed models ? They are as detailed as an entire submarine ! You're going to kill my pc !

[MLF]

[QUOTE=Wise;Listen, Sphere. Perhaps, has come it is time to leave to us with you from here? So in the future we weren't accused of theft and didn't demand the credits for what we didn't take..[/QUOTE]

Please don't stop your brilliant work on the basis of this unsubstantiated remark by v-I-c- that perhaps would have been better left unsaid. Your work is greatly appreciated by the SH3 community as it has brought, and hopefully will continue to bring a whole new level to the SH3 simulation. I am sure most if not all, bar v-I-c-, would agree.

It is surely obvious that when modelling the same item, then if the modellers are good, as in this case, the models would/should appear exactly the same. Perhaps the person(s) who invented the original real life equipment should be kicking up because they are not given credit for inventing it in the first place

Keep up the excellent work guys.

Regards,

MLF

[makman94]

@v-i-c:
it is really sad to see you acting like this.
so , all the proofs that you had in your hands is this ''he(NZSnowman) thinks...'' ? (now go back and reread the 'style' of your first post)


i don't know why you choosed ,as your first move, this brutal public posts but you are not surprising me as it is not the first time you are doing it.you have insulted other people with your public posts again at the past and again with no proofs at all.

You are steping from one fault to another and so on.If ,indead, you are interested in making the right thing then you should have contact first with Sphere (pay attention ...IN PRIVATE MESSAGES) asking him for explainations for your friend's accusions(really...why it was you stepping into? NZSnowman hasn't his own voice?).
If Sphere's answer was NOT satisfactory then you should have contact the moderators of the forum and address there your complains.you should have been sure that they would take care of it if there was a point in all this.

But no, without any proofs on your hands and based only at the NZSnowman's thought you rushed into the public posts just for insulting Sphere and eventually Wise who stepped into to defent his friend. you didn't even compare the models (and neither your friend NZSnowman did so as he ,obviously, said to you that he thinks...he was not sure).

Then, i see you getting brutal again based on Sphere's sincere answer that he used the horn.
(which is one part and not 'parts' as you started on your next replies.later ,you changed your phrase again calling it as one part).You ,as a moder and as a basic 3d designer, you should know better than me that ,by watching the skills of these guys here, it is easy as glancing your eyes for them to make their own horn.Sphere told why he picked this part (here there is,indead, a fault to Sphere as he should had mentioned the source of the horn) BUT this doesn't seem to me strange at all. when you are at high levels of 3d designing ,the moders each other know better what is important and what is not so i am guessing that NZSnowman must be upset becuase he 'thinks' that all of his work is copied.
I really doupt (in fact i am sure) that he complaint to you about the ...horn. otherwise you should have talked ONLY for the horn (again firstly via pms). and now i see you trying to grab the chance (the great...horn!) and avoid to do what you own to do and ask a public apology for your insults.

becuase all these are remaining as insults till the time that you or NZSnowman are not comparing the models.IF you or NZSnowman compare the models and find ,at the end, that they are indentical (something that you must have done first before even start this here) then Sphere and Wise owns a public apology and ,thats my opinion and suggestion, the images must be removed from the forum just for making the less we can to pay credits to NZSnowman's work.

Finally , why are you asking from Wise to stop talking to you ? is he annoying you when he tries to defent Sphere and himself from your accusions?

thats the way i see the things till now. One way or another someone is guilty here and must do the right thing if we want to have a safe environment for moders presenting their works.

[Wise]

Originally Posted by Fahnenbohn

@ Sphere : Why do you build so detailed models ? They are as detailed as an entire submarine ! You're going to kill my pc !

Fahnenbohn, Long-term experience of game in SH3 and experience of a modding allows us to think over optimization in advance. And also, there is an opportunity to estimate, the previous similar mods of other authors are how competently made. I won't tell their names, but I can claim surely that many of community U-boat, play beautiful models long ago, and at the same time don't know at all what serious overloads test their computers when processing these models. At the same time, very often these overloads absolutely superfluous, unnecessary. It happens because of extremely illiterate actions of authors of models.
I assure you that the Sphere models, after optimization don't exceed the polygonal power of much, illiterately made models which now carelessly (and for a long time) people play. And often, even much less.

Manos, buddy, thanks. Much of what you have told, was in my thoughts, but I didn't want to continue this vile dialogue further. Sphere has taken horn from NZSnowman NOT BECAUSE HE CAN not MAKE IT AND THEN OPTIMIZE, BUT BECAUSE horn from HAS NZSnowman ALREADY OBVIOUSLY been OPTIMIZED FOR GAME. And to cling to this "argument" ridiculously and unworthy.

Guys, Thanks for your support. I don't want to leave from here. But...
Sphere now, unfortunately, can't be near the Internet. He works. I will wait when he appears and that he will tell. As he will react to this buffoonery. I know Sphere and I know what I speak. If this situation isn't resolved properly, and he will still be absurdly accused of plagiarism, I will leave from here. Because, for me this situation is extremely nastily. We work for the soul, and we share the works with people for the general benefit, but not for the credits. But unfortunately, is also such who worries only for himself and for the credits(even for a fragment of one polygon) and is ready to demand them even where they can't be. And it is disgusting.

[Jimbuna]

Looks like matters have been aired and a concensus of agreement has resulted in the opinion that no plagiarism has been carried out (as previously stated in my post @ #302).

So, unless sphere would like to comment or clarify further failing any further accusatory input from v-i-c can I suggest we move on and enjoy the work that is ongoing.

Further blood letting is really not going to help matters.

For my part, I will do my best to keep an eye on matters and or any further developments.

[Wise]

Mister NZSnowman! I have removed your detail from Sphere model and I will make own. You don't obtain any credits. You can be sure that your details will never appear in our models. I never knew your page with your models. And I don't want to know. And I will recommend extremely Sphere that it has also forgotten about them as a bad dream. Make a favor, don't send here more your courier v-i-c-. Also, I want to hope, as you here any more also will never come. All the best.