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Old 07-29-09, 04:04 PM   #1
moltobenny
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Default How do I learn about things?

Big fan of the game -- the slow, grueling, almost majestic nature of naval combat just does it for me. My question is, for someone who likes the game, likes the genre, but doesn't know much about the equipment and weaponry being modeled, and how to best use it, is there some easy-to-find, easy-to-use repository of information like that?

I know there's countless history books I could pore through, but something more like a tutorial or reference guide would be helpful just to get started.

Thanks!
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Old 07-29-09, 05:04 PM   #2
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A fair bit of digging involved but the Distant Guns forum on Gamesquad has lengthy disscusions and plenty of regular players happy to answer most questions.

The wiki has some info but not everything.
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Old 07-29-09, 05:16 PM   #3
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Most things usually comes from general knowledge of the era and the navies involved. Otherwise, I can't help much except for the raw technical data.

Navweaps is an excellent place if you want to know about the performance of guns and such at the time

The Dreadnought Project has some interesting stuff

Otherwise, most of what Wikipedia says about the ships and the like is reliable, I believe
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Old 07-29-09, 05:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moltobenny View Post
I know there's countless history books I could pore through, but something more like a tutorial or reference guide would be helpful just to get started.
Well, what specifically do you want to know? That would let me point you in the right direction or just tell you myself . The DG manual, however, does have some useful tidbits in it.
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Old 07-30-09, 04:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bullethead View Post
The DG manual, however, does have some useful tidbits in it.
Sorry for inconvenience, mr. Bullethead, you probably missed my post about manual. Not just DG1.5's contains some obsolete data but also there is (IMHO) a lack of important information concerning gunnery and accuracy. For example - COMPLETE list of factors affecting accuracy, description of circumstances they appear in, possible tips & tricks, examples etc. Historical and technical information is probably not quite enough - I would say either manual upgrade or separate manual (say to download from SES website) would be very helpfull...
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Old 07-31-09, 12:02 PM   #6
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Asked for and dismissed many times. This is apparently viewed as pearls before the unwashed paying masses, trade secret, if-they-told-us-they'd-have-to-kill-us, or whatever, type information.

They like to think their sim is so good that all you need to know is the real world stuff in order to understand the game. However, significant "inconsistencies" have been discovered in area like gunnery modeling (subsequently argued, flamed and vehemently denied by company reps and fan bois alike, with accompanying suggestions that any such "perceived" anomaly must be the result of end user stupidity and incompetence) that warrant a closer look at the sim engine.

Denied.

But even if they had nailed everything just so, we know there's a line drawn when it comes to fidelity... particularly in an entertainment type product. Knowing where that line was drawn - or more specifically, knowing exactly what factors influence things like gunnery (and to what degree) and which do not - would be very helpful when it comes to understanding the game.

Denied.

And don't bother posting on gamesquad. Criticism, contructive or otherwise - and this includes uncomfortable questions such you pose here - is simply not tolerated.

JD
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Old 07-31-09, 03:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jdkbph View Post
And don't bother posting on gamesquad. Criticism, contructive or otherwise - and this includes uncomfortable questions such you pose here - is simply not tolerated.
Now JD, where do you get off saying stuff like this? In this very thread, I asked the OP what he wanted to talk about and he ain't been back since.

As for stuff going on in GameSquad, how many mega pages of text have I typed over there explaining how stuff works? Quite a lot of it has found its way into the Wiki.

Which, in case anybody here is interested, check this out: http://<a href="http://jutland.wikia...s:_Jutland</a>

So I ask again--What do you want to know?
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Old 07-31-09, 04:16 PM   #8
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I think he (and I and many others) would like a peek at some of the inner working. Not code, mind you, but jut an idea of what affects what and how. For instance, how hit problabilities are calculated and what are the factors that modify those probabilities.

I just had a look at some of my old SSI naval warfare computer game manuals (Warship and Battlecruiser) and even back in the day that information was provided.

I'm not getting why this should be top secret.
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Old 08-01-09, 06:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdkbph View Post
And don't bother posting on gamesquad. Criticism, contructive or otherwise - and this includes uncomfortable questions such you pose here - is simply not tolerated.
This Sir,

is, to put it mildly, not true. Very few posts on Gameaquad have been moderated, IIRC no post has been ever deleted and IF there had action from the mods, it was mostly when things got personal. If you don`t like the aswers you get, well this is another piece of cake. Plus, you know that you and others are pulling some legs at times, don`t you?

Critisism even often led to patches. See f.e. "The Duel" with EOI often being hammered with the first salvoes. I don`t know how many bug reports or suggestions I added to the ticket system, I think my count is in the 40ies now. Most of them where answered within 24 hours and IIRC all cured or explained why it wasn`t a bug later.

As for the factors influencing gunnery, BH often explained it, most of it is too to be found on the Jutland Wiki. And comparing it to the manual or the mechanics under the hood of Fighting Steel, well this is just apples to oranges IMO. I think Jutland and DG have a much more sophisticated gunnery and damage model, which isn`t just based on hitpoints. So I would bet, it is not as easy to put out hard figures, like in the FS manual.
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Old 08-01-09, 09:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
This Sir, is, to put it mildly, not true.
Sorry, but this has been my experience. I watched as two very knowledgeable and even tempered individuals were shouted down by a couple of rabid fan bois for daring to suggest there was something amiss with the gunnery model. Everyone saw the same thing I saw. But no one had the balls to speak up. That's when I decided Gamesquad was not worth my time.

Quote:
Plus, you know that you and others are pulling some legs at times, don`t you?
Yes, but this is not one of those times.

Quote:
Most of them where answered within 24 hours and IIRC all cured or explained why it wasn`t a bug later.
Yes, they are particularly good at explaining why they are correct and we are wrong.

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So I would bet, it is not as easy to put out hard figures, like in the FS manual.
For sheer complexity it's hard to beat War in the Pacific. Yet WitP is quite thoroughly documented. Jutland's manual looks more like a FAQ. Different games to be sure, but I think the comparison is valid.


Oh, and BTW....

WitP Admiral's Edition installed on my machine without phoning home! Even more amazing is that just this morning I went over to the Matrix Games web site and...

It's still there!!

I was fully expecting that army of Chinese and Russian pirates SES is always going on about to have driven them out of business by now!

(yes, that last bit would be an example of me pullling legs )

JD
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