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Old 10-07-17, 06:25 PM   #16
subcritical
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If we just had a good throttleman we wouldn't have cavitation unless it was ordered! Maybe a game improvement to have a cavitate button? And in real life, at least 20 years ago, it was a basic calculation. The calculation works for steady state to steady state speed, not transiting from one speed to another. That depends on how aggressive the throttleman is.

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edit: corrected spelling of cavitate!

Last edited by subcritical; 10-08-17 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 10-10-17, 01:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subcritical View Post
If we just had a good throttleman we wouldn't have cavitation unless it was ordered! Maybe a game improvement to have a cavitate button?
YES!. Devs.. This please!

As a qualified throttleman I can ASSURE you that we would NOT cavitate on a bell change unless ORDERED to do this. If cavitation was to occur the EOOW would notify conn that they were cavitating. They would then acknowledge the report and order us to continue to answer the bell.

If you got the bell change with the a ring of the engine order telegraph (a cavitate button I guess) that would indicate a order to answer the ordered bell without regard to cavitation.

Example: When conn ordered ahead flank for torpedo evasion we would get the OET to Ahead Flank with 3 rings of the OET bell. That was our clue to stand on the power.
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Old 10-10-17, 02:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead Nuke View Post
YES!. Devs.. This please!

As a qualified throttleman I can ASSURE you that we would NOT cavitate on a bell change unless ORDERED to do this. If cavitation was to occur the EOOW would notify conn that they were cavitating. They would then acknowledge the report and order us to continue to answer the bell.

If you got the bell change with the a ring of the engine order telegraph (a cavitate button I guess) that would indicate a order to answer the ordered bell without regard to cavitation.

Example: When conn ordered ahead flank for torpedo evasion we would get the OET to Ahead Flank with 3 rings of the OET bell. That was our clue to stand on the power.
I can confirm this from my time as helm. Cavitation will occur if you go too fast for a given depth though, and that may be what they're modeling. Watching the screw go from All Stop to All Ahead Flank at 500 ft, the in game Throttleman cranks open the Ahead Throttle without regard to cavitation occurring due to putting too many turns on the screw too quickly. But in this instance no cavitation occurred when it should have in real life. So I think it's safe to say the cavitaion model is a simple depth vs speed profile.

Also that Throttleman should blow the ORSE team away with his ability to go from Ahead Flank to All Stop Stop the shaft, all in under 3 secs.
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Old 10-10-17, 05:47 PM   #19
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Qualified TH here also. Crash backs from Flank were awesome! We did a bunch of these on the way into the shipyard in which the shaft was being replaced!
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Old 10-11-17, 11:06 AM   #20
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The ramification of what's suggested here in the last few posts is you will not get the turns requested unless:
1) You pressed the additional "whatever" button.
This has the additional ramification that the software has to decide if it will give you the nearest lower bell or the nearest lower absolute knots speed.
OR:
2) The depth for the requested speed is sufficient to prevent cavitation.
This has the ramification if the software will automatically increase the bell response OR the nearest lower exact knot response automatically as the boat dives.

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Old 10-11-17, 01:23 PM   #21
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Yes, precisely. This is a more realistic scenario, while maybe being too complicated for the desired game play. I personally would like it.
1) the button would be the cavitate button. All forward bells are implied as do not cavitate (unless you get the 3 rings). I can't remember if Flank followed that rule or not. All backing bells are cavitate, unless told otherwise. In the software under normal changes the forward speed would need to follow the cavitation profile until the ordered bell (or speed) is reached. If the cavitate button is activated then you answer the bell aggressively.
2) if I understood correctly you mean that as you change depth the subs speed may or may not need to change. That would be correct, as you go deeper, maneuvering can answer a higher speed until the ordered bell (or speed) is reached. Likewise if you are going shallow, lower the answered turns to prevent cavitation.
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Old 10-11-17, 01:48 PM   #22
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Keep in mind one of the game challenges is cavitation. If the enemy subs were also equipped with auto cavitation prevention, they would never cavitate unless they are aggressively attacked or thought they might be.

Right now, they sometimes cavitate by accident just as a real player might while learning or in a moment of inattention.

In Full Auto not only would you never cavitate under auto control (I suggest the possibility of a "Full Auto" button- in which the sub would never cavitate unless instructed to by "Full Auto" = off) and the enemy subs would never accidentally reveal themselves and would only cavitate when under escape power.

Maybe disable this feature under max skill level. I suspect having this feature would require some major adjustment to AI enemy tactics logic.
If the concept of an "accidental/incidental" AI cavitation is retained, while under player "Full Auto" there should also be the possibility of the player crew making a mistake, providing an incentive to turn FA off to afford the player the opportunity to use the skill to prevent it entirely.

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Old 10-11-17, 01:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subcritical View Post
Yes, precisely. This is a more realistic scenario, while maybe being too complicated for the desired game play. I personally would like it.
1) the button would be the cavitate button. All forward bells are implied as do not cavitate (unless you get the 3 rings). I can't remember if Flank followed that rule or not. All backing bells are cavitate, unless told otherwise. In the software under normal changes the forward speed would need to follow the cavitation profile until the ordered bell (or speed) is reached. If the cavitate button is activated then you answer the bell aggressively.
2) if I understood correctly you mean that as you change depth the subs speed may or may not need to change. That would be correct, as you go deeper, maneuvering can answer a higher speed until the ordered bell (or speed) is reached. Likewise if you are going shallow, lower the answered turns to prevent cavitation.
Flank followed the rule too. I think we may have to look at a complete overhaul of the ships speed mechanics in game to get closer to reality. In the mean time a cavitation profile chart for each boat, and learning that profile, would also put you closer to reality as well. Before qualifying OOD you had to qualify EOOW, so an officer would learn early on the operational constraints in regards to speed vs depth for cavitation.
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Old 10-11-17, 02:06 PM   #24
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Right now, creating your own charts for the subs you "fly" the most is relatively easy, just very tedious. Some do it knot for knot for depth, but I tend to use a half-dozen relatively easy to remember ranges. Takes less time to create.

What this thread was originally created for is a central place for players to POST the cavitation charts they have discovered for the various subs they fly and post them here for others to use which would be useful to all beginner commanders to help them over the learning curve and as part of their make-believe "certification" course.

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