Some thoughts from one of the mainstream

[boadle]

Originally Posted by Chock

On the whole, I think the original poster makes a good point, but as I say, I think some things are best left out of a war game

A sobering post indeed.

So, I'm confused. Are there people on the ships in the released version of SH4? Do they man lifeboats and jump overboard? Were they only featured in a beta version, and then removed?

[pasharr]

Talking of unsettling experience's when playing these games, I've always felt somehow wrong when playing SH3, but thats only because my Grandad was torpedoed four times and lost a lot of friends...Stories I grew up with, hence the interest in sims of this type. So I must admit to some weird guilt when playing that version.

Luckily SH4 doesnt have that!

[immortal44]

Everyone here wants to feel like they are the Captain of a submarine in a WWII movie, but the Designers need to make gramatical changes in order to bring that feeling home.

I don't agree. I would say there are 3 camps:

1. Point and shoot crowd, a very casual gamer.

2. Those who want to roleplay as a sub captain.

3. Those who want to simulate ww2 sub warfare.

This forum is probably split between 2 and 3. The big difference is those in group 2 want more interaction with the sub (ie fully explorable, interactive controls, interact with crew etc) and probably less work with manual targetting. A real captain would not do all of that himself, which brings us to the 3rd group. These guys aren't so much roleplaying a captain as simulating ww2 sub warfare. They'll do the calculations because that is what was done, even if not by the captain (well in reality they probably had gagets to help them out as well as experience to give damn good estimates).

I'm more of 2 than 3. I wish that you could request the crew to track a target through the scope giving bearing, range etc or having someone record it on the map, ordering those details be sent to whoever would have operated the tdc in real life (?). I do like the challenge of figuring it all out yourself but I don't think it is realistic at all. And sometimes it'd be nice to be able to choose in game without having the simple auto targeting enabled. I guess I'd like a semi-auto option.

[AVGWarhawk]

I need to see the effect of my aggression on real people, and I need to see the effect of my enemies, on my crew.

I had to stop reading after this line. Specifically "my aggression on real people" Phoooooo.......

[Sailor Steve]

I like immortal44's summation. I'm more of a 3 myself, having loved sims like Aces Of The Deep and Silent Hunter 1. All I asked for from newer games was better graphics, but the more I see of the onboard crew (especially on the bridge) and now the people on the ships in SH4, the more I drift toward number 2. Playing those older games, however, which had no stations, just screens, I never felt like a "trigonometry machine".

I sort of agree with boadle-it would be nice to be able to tour the whole sub; but until it becomes easy to program all the extra stations without losing out in other areas I'll live with only having the ones that are necessary. As for the mainstream, are most normal gamers ever going to be happy sailing around for weeks of game time, on the off-chance that they might actually see a target, and maybe get to attack it?

[momo55]

When i attack a ship ..i attack the ship and here cargo ...not the crew on it.
I'm always surprised when i see that no ship in a convoy will attempt to save those poor men in there lifeboats . They just sail on ...leaving there fellow countrymen behind...strange behavior :hmm:

[boadle]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I had to stop reading after this line. Specifically "my aggression on real people" Phoooooo.......

Perhaps a better nomenclature would have been "my virtual aggression on virtual people".

You can go and read it now, Warhawk.

[nattydread]

Woohoo, WWIIOnline is the still my #1 game. The only reason I got into WWII subs and subs in general was because of WWIIOnline. It is the furture of multiplayer war sims. Thoug hits far away from getting subs, my intention has always to develop my sub skills so one day I can use them in WWIIOnline in the most "realistic" combat environment available.

The thing that still causes me to eventually drift from these single player sims and severally limited "battle in a bottle" multipler engagments is the limited scope and redundancy they both eventually devolve into. Only until devs invest time and resources into a 24hr persistent combat theater environment will these sims have lasting appeal for me as WWIIOnline has.

I'd gladly pay $12-15 a month for years to have that type of gameplay like I do with WWIIOnline. They have gotten their monthly subscription from me for over 6yrs now and will continue too, even if I dont play for a few months. Why? because I believe in their vision and I know if they die that game style and vision dies with them. Those guys slave away like no other and that devotion on their part is reciprocated by my support financially and in admiration.

[swash]

Originally Posted by nattydread

Woohoo, WWIIOnline is the still my #1 game. The only reason I got into WWII subs and subs in general was because of WWIIOnline. It is the furture of multiplayer war sims. Thoug hits far away from getting subs, my intention has always to develop my sub skills so one day I can use them in WWIIOnline in the most "realistic" combat environment available.

The thing that still causes me to eventually drift from these single player sims and severally limited "battle in a bottle" multipler engagments is the limited scope and redundancy they both eventually devolve into. Only until devs invest time and resources into a 24hr persistent combat theater environment will these sims have lasting appeal for me as WWIIOnline has.

I'd gladly pay $12-15 a month for years to have that type of gameplay like I do with WWIIOnline. They have gotten their monthly subscription from me for over 6yrs now and will continue too, even if I dont play for a few months. Why? because I believe in their vision and I know if they die that game style and vision dies with them. Those guys slave away like no other and that devotion on their part is reciprocated by my support financially and in admiration.

I doubt there will ever be subs in ww2ol

On topic, I really wish the convoy vessels would pick up some of the lifeboats. Less contact reports that way

[Herr Karl]

That's too bad the more mature content had to be left out due to rating restrictions.

Maybe an option to enable mature content and a dual rating system?..i.e. T/M?

Just thinking out loud....

[XanderF]

Originally Posted by immortal44

I would say there are 3 camps:

1. Point and shoot crowd, a very casual gamer.

2. Those who want to roleplay as a sub captain.

3. Those who want to simulate ww2 sub warfare.

This forum is probably split between 2 and 3. The big difference is those in group 2 want more interaction with the sub (ie fully explorable, interactive controls, interact with crew etc) and probably less work with manual targetting. A real captain would not do all of that himself, which brings us to the 3rd group. These guys aren't so much roleplaying a captain as simulating ww2 sub warfare. They'll do the calculations because that is what was done, even if not by the captain (well in reality they probably had gagets to help them out as well as experience to give damn good estimates).

Snipped either end off, but good post. I agree.

I think I'm more of a '2' than a '3' (although some of both, obviously), which is why I keep coming back to Sh3 and Sh4 (more Sh3, as the crew interaction - while less realistic - is greater) over the modern subsims SC and DW....although, by topic, I am FARRRR more interested in modern naval warfare. As in, modern sub simulations being a '10/10' for interest, WW2 subsims would rate more like a '6/10'.

However, there is literally NO crew interaction in SC or DW. No 3d of course, but no 2d crew, no skills to track, promotions, medals awarded - heck, the campaign itself is only the very thinnest veil over the single-mission-based game engine. As far as the game is concered, you are the only person on a 100m long, 7000 ton nuclear submarine. Oh, with a few computer aids (which is all the 'auto crew' really amount to even when enabled).

So...I end up playing Sh3 instead. (Very frustrating, too, as I cannot hit the broadside of a barn with a torpedo lacking a tracking ability of its own. )

It'd be AWESOME to have the SH series take steps you'd mentioned - more interaction, have crew handle more things, actually have dialog with crew, etc. But I'd really be happy with a modern subsim that even does what Sh3/4 have done!

[immortal44]

Originally Posted by momo55

When i attack a ship ..i attack the ship and here cargo ...not the crew on it.
I'm always surprised when i see that no ship in a convoy will attempt to save those poor men in there lifeboats . They just sail on ...leaving there fellow countrymen behind...strange behavior :hmm:

Would you stop where another ship has just been blown out of the water by an enemy sub?

[perisher]

Originally Posted by immortal44

Would you stop where another ship has just been blown out of the water by an enemy sub?

No sane captain would. In fact there were often ordered not too. Allied convoys sometimes had designated rescue ships, but for normal ships the risk of stopping with a submarine about was far too great to chance. Take the example of the Queen Mary and HMS Curcoa, the high speed troopship rammed and sank her own escort, but could not risk stopping to rescue survivors because of U-boats in the area. It was a trade off of the loss of 338 Royal Navy men against the potential loss of 5,500 American soldiers, as well as the sailors.

[momo55]

I would first ask the skipper of the ship next to me to do that:rotfl:.
But that's what they all do for the moment when i torpedo one of them ...destroyers includet ...they advance at 1 knot max....the lifeboats are faster

But on a more serious note ...thx for the info perisher ...seems logical ....tuff and cruel dissicions those skippers hade to make .

Keep those feet dry sailors

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by pasharr

Yeh I work with you! lol!

look over your shoulder:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: