Question about Steel Beasts

[Fercyful]

wow Skybird! thanks for the detailed answer.

Now I undertand why they are non-crewable... Hope the demand for the T-72 finally make it in the game...

seen that way you do not really miss anything with the T-55 not being crewable. Or do you enjoy getting shot up all the time?

thinking in that way better stay away of the T-55!

but... I still want the T-72

I think I will be happy playing with the Leopard. really enjoy reading your answer.

vielen dank!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Fercyful

but... I still want the T-72

That want many. Though I am not one of them, the T72 is no object of interest for me to play with.

I think I will be happy playing with the Leopard. really enjoy reading your answer.

vielen dank!

Schon gut. The Leopards are nice to play with, the three latest versions all with full 3D cockpits that mostly are similiar but nevertheless have all their unique features. Full 3D interior also for the CV-9035, CV9040 B and C, the Pizarro, and the Centauro, also the control console for the Lemur system. M1 and M2 also have modelled 3D cockpits, but they are not interactive and not as detailed. All other crewable vehicles just offer direct jump to the different stations optical sensors and weapons, like in SB Legacy (=SB1 ten years ago). The US army is no customer of SBP. I think no army ever has demanded 3D cockpits, I think esim does exclusively for the gaming market: the eye candy factor.

[Werewolf]

Just one advise, one of the few hniggles with SBP is that the AI does not reliably detect small water obstacles like small ponds of for example 2-3m size with steep walls. It tends to ignore them and get stuck. If this happens to you, ask again, I then tell you the possible remedies. Major rivers, bridging operaitons and using road bridges works well, though. Battle positions very near to rivers also is a critical issue, if the unit autonomously manouvers to adopt to enemy movement, it can sometimes retreat backwards into the river, and get stuck.

Well, in the tanksims that I have had crossing water wasn't even possible and if so the game didn't have the brain to simulate a tank being stock so for me this sounds like a "luxury problem" sort of speak . But thanks, I will certainly ask for advice right now the biggest problem is that I don't even have the game yet haha and I get more and more keen to own the more you write about it yum yum

Not only modern. You now can set up original early cold war scenarios as well, the needed vehicles are there now. You can also tune the sim to reflect WWII-technology only, like I described in the SBP resources sticky.

Ah I see, so you can actually switch modern technology on and off? well I'm mostly interested in modern amored warfare.

As for the T72 and T55 .... well I would like to try, but actually I would rather like to see more focus on non US equipment like the French for example and their post WWII amored vehicles and tactics, the AMX series and their heavy use of fast armored cars / tank destroyers like the ebr75 and amx10rc. In that way I am quite satisfied with esim's shift of focus on the more "light combatants", I think the addition of the Centauro is great.

By the way speaking of T72 and 55's, have you read about the upgrades a lot of these tanks are going through now?

Actually many maps are several times bigger than the maximum area you can have in a mission (some 400 square-km, if I recall correctly, which is big enough for platoon, company and batallion action, most used mission maps are considerably smaller). So you can use several different parts of one map to use for various missions. You can also change the season and geograhic scheme of any given map: it then has the same heightmap, but different architecture, vegetation, desert, woodland or snow schemes, etc.

Does that mean that the player will never be able to make use of the whole 400 sqaure km map or that it's just surplus to requirements? By the way, can you link scenarios together? I take it that the mission generator is so complex that one doesn't even have to......but I've seen a site where they have a lot of online campaigns going on and I was just wondering if campaigns are possible in single player too?

And as Fercyful says your detailed answers are really a pleasure to read, thanks

[Werewolf]

@skybird:

Oh by the way, the vehicles that you mention which are there for making a cold war scenario, are they part of an upgrade by esim?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Werewolf

Ah I see, so you can actually switch modern technology on and off? well I'm mostly interested in modern amored warfare.

The tanks are modelled with plenty of technical systems matching their originals, and also a very diverse layout of individual armour plates on different parts of the hull, like in real life. A mission designer can tick on and off any of these subsystems to simulate damaged tanks 8from an earlier battle, for example). check the SBP sticky resources. The mods have thorwn much things together now, but after the info-post and some comments there is a long illustrated essay of mine that explkains in detail and with detailed pictures of stations and menues how to tune the sim to fight like in WWII.

Edit:
forget it, the ressources thread slowly turns into a mess, I do not understand what the mods are doing there, throwing five pages of different content together.
Here it is:
part 1 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...3&postcount=53

part 2 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...5&postcount=54

part 3 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...6&postcount=55

As for the T72 and T55 .... well I would like to try, but actually I would rather like to see more focus on non US equipment like the French for example and their post WWII amored vehicles and tactics, the AMX series and their heavy use of fast armored cars / tank destroyers like the ebr75 and amx10rc. In that way I am quite satisfied with esim's shift of focus on the more "light combatants", I think the addition of the Centauro is great.

In fact many poeple complain that there is so little playable US gear. That simply is that the abrams does not sell well, but the Leopard does, and also, beside the Abrams, there is no other US MBT in use. . Of eSim'S military customers, only one or two nations operate Abrams (Australia, Canada), all others decided for the Leopard. That'S why you have 2 different Leopard-1 and 4 different Leopard-2, but until the recent upgrade just one Abrams (m1A1HA). not before just now they included the old M1 with the 105mm as well, because the cockpit is pretty much the same, and the non-crewable M1A2SEP. The major line of IFVs, crewable, are Swedish ones (CV-series, 3 types plus FO), plus the Pizarro. The Bradley is there, too, though. And the range of various (AS)LAV and M113-type of vehicles.

Be advised that the same ammo round can be rated with different effectiveness depending on the gun from which it is fired. That'S with regard to the US 105mm, the German L44 120mm that also is build in licence for the Abrams now, and the new German L55 gun with longer barrel. the latest german Tungsten ammo is almost on par with the third generation US-DU-round when fired from the L44, but the same Tungsten round fired from the L55 is rated with an almost 10% supoeriority over the US-DU round from an L44. Ammo type is not be underestimated in SBP.

By the way speaking of T72 and 55's, have you read about the upgrades a lot of these tanks are going through now?

Pardon?

Edit:
now, ten hours later or so, I understand the question, it took me some time, sorry. On the T-55 I only know that it is the most-built tank ever, with almost 90-100 thousand pieces having left factory. It is still folund in 3rd world countires, that'S why maybe it was wanted as an OpFor unit by customers. The T-72 I read about what popular sites have to say on it. The modelled M and M1 versions are the versions you saw not stopping to pop up in both gulf wars, cheap export versions which were inferior to the versions of their times the Soviets kept for themselves, armour and ammo were weaker, sensors varied, used material and construction quality were not as good as for internal Soviet demand. The B version is new in SBP now, a tough bugger with a powerful punch and AT-missiles. The M4 seems to be the best of the four modelled versions, a Czech versio0n upgrade with Wetsern systems, and the only T-72 in the game with thermal displays (a major force-multiplier). But it is not equipped with AT-missiles.It also is quite fast. The t-55 and T-62 as well as the M60 are very slow, though, never forget that. Compared to them, the Leo-1 is a sportscar and shows what a totally superior tank it was - in its timeframe before the T-72 and Leo-2 appeared. When the T-72 appeared, it was high time for the M1 and Leo-2. especially the M60 i would not have put my mkoney on, when facing a detemrined attack by T-72. They were faster, smaller, and more powerful in punch. The M60's thermals maybe wpould have partiually compensated this, not equalling chances. the Leo-1 probably would have had better chances, due to its better manouverability over the M60.

Many people do not know that the later T-90 - is a later version of the T-72, they chnaged the name for marketing reason after the T-72 expoert models got such a beating in the gulf wars. The T-90 is closer to the T-72 than to the turbine-run T-80.

Does that mean that the player will never be able to make use of the whole 400 sqaure km map or that it's just surplus to requirements? By the way, can you link scenarios together? I take it that the mission generator is so complex that one doesn't even have to......but I've seen a site where they have a lot of online campaigns going on and I was just wondering if campaigns are possible in single player too?

The biggest scenario map possible is I think around 400 km2, but that map can be just a snippet of the actual full map the mission designer cut it out from. I think I saw full maps of 70x70 km, something in that range, but you cannot use all that in one mission - and it would nto make any sense, too. SBP focusses on platoon and company level, and althnough batallion also is possible, you hardy need maps that are outside a size range of for example from 5x5 up to maybe 10x15 km. Do not underestimate "small" missions. Many mission designs exel right in the "small" segment, because that is what SBP originally was intended for in the main: platoon simulation.

No dynamic campaigns. If you want a storyline of missions, you can help that a bit by adding destroyed vehciles into the landscape at the likely hotpsots of earlier battles. But SBP has no special interest in telling storylines. I wouldnot bother for it - the batttle ou already do will keep you busy. And if you are as crazy as I am, you can set up a bigger battle in SP and play thatone for hours. Some designers try to simulaereal milizary excercises and problems, and they do that well. For my own pourposes, I set up missions that fit my personal needs and are optimised for my way of enjoying the sim best. Almost everything is possible in a mission design, you even can tune the sim so that it becomes an aracde action shooter, almost: superior tanks with latest ammo against waves of inferor tanks with 30 years old ammo.

And as Fercyful says your detailed answers are really a pleasure to read, thanks

I am simply convinced of this sim, and i am not alone with that attitude. In the 4 years since SBPPE was released, I read only of two guys who complained about the sim and sold it. Actually more people sold it - but over reasons of lacking time to play it. You will find it difficult to find a second hand copy. sometimes ther eis one at ebay, but only very rarely - people tend to not wanting to separate with SBP again once they found out what thy got. It is a true and full quality product in almost every regard, I only compare Falcon 4 to it. In my avatar you can see that originally i have been a flightsim buff - but SBP changed that. Today, of all cockpits sims I knew over the years, I play SBP almost exclusively, the few other games are strategy games.

Originally Posted by Werewolf

@skybird:

Oh by the way, the vehicles that you mention which are there for making a cold war scenario, are they part of an upgrade by esim?

For owners of recent versions of Steelbeasts: upgrade. For new customer: the full retail version to be sold from September on includes that upgrade.

The version to watch out for, the new one, the standard, the only one there is, the dearly beloved: v2.538.

It is no "patch" that gets installed over installations of existing older versions. Old version must be fully deinstalled, the new one is a complete new installation, including all the sim's content and files.

Difference between the upgrade and the full package: the files you get are the same in both cases, but upgraders just buy a new licence for the codemeter USB dongle that they have gotten with their older versions that they bought. The files they can download and install for free - but not run them without upgrading that license, that is what they pay for: a new license for their existing dongle, it gets loaded onto it and then the sim runs again. New customers install exactly the same files, but for their money also get the USB dongle with that new license already on it, the printed manual for version 2.460, and the CD.

Upgraders optionally can chose to buy download and CD. But there is not really a point in it. The CD includes six videos five of which are already available in public (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...2&postcount=10), and more photos for the credits screen when you quit. If oyu have these photos already from an earlier version, you can put them into that new folder. Spending an additonal 7 dollars for CD upgrade really has no point, imo. the installation files are setb up for download for free. Even the technical director of eSim himself says it is pretty much pointless. But if somebody wants to spend more money, they will not stop him from doing so. Upgrade price currently is 25 dollars without CD option. Considering the sioze of the content, that is cheap, really cheap.

It'S the same program package people need, no matter whether they upgrade or buy the full version for the first time. The difference only lies in upgrading the dongle license, or getting a complete new dongle plus printed manual.

It seems to have quite weired effects if peope just install over old versions, or try two separate installations. So again: any old version of SBP must be fully deinstalled, and the new version then installed as the only one being used.

Full vehicle list and anything else one needs to know in the SBP resources sticky.

P.S. I forget to mention in the water part of comment, that amphibic vehicles can swim over lakes and rivers, but they need to have smooth riverbanks/beaches to roll into the water and out, else they get stuck. set up a naval battle between BMP cruisers, if you want. Bridgelayers can also bridge tank obstacles and minefields. Oooh - there was one limitation on mines or obstacles, I do not remember exactly right now, I think the steel beams are not to be bridged, but the dragon teeth.

[Fercyful]

hey Skybird with your answers more and more I want the simulation, just waiting for the stock for buy it

(I think you deserve a FREE upgrade from them! )

The Leopards are nice to play with, the three latest versions all with full 3D cockpits that mostly are similiar but nevertheless have all their unique features. Full 3D interior also for the CV-9035, CV9040 B and C, the Pizarro, and the Centauro, also the control console for the Lemur system. M1 and M2 also have modelled 3D cockpits, but they are not interactive and not as detailed.

so you can actually "click" on the systems inside the Leopard cockpits? that have to be great!

you can also play as the driver or "just" give commands to an AI driver?

sorry for the extra questions really enjoy the reading and keep watching videos in youtube until the happy "open-the-box" day

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Fercyful

(I think you deserve a FREE upgrade from them! )

I agree, but they never answered to my invitation to discuss this.

so you can actually "click" on the systems inside the Leopard cockpits? that have to be great!

Partially, on some you can, as buttons are relevant for the optics of TC and gunner. But in practice, you do not use that often, at least I don't. I have all relevant controls mapped to a HOTAS I use. In case of emergencies and system failures it helps to iknow where an emergency function can be activated in the cockpoit, if that ius a rare command not mapped on the HOTAs and the keyboard command is not remembered. But truth is that in usual gameplay you use hotkeys to access the various optics, not the click-interface. The 3D interior is helpful in bthe Leopards, becaseu it allows oyu to keep an eye on the monitor with the map and the second monitor with the TIS at the same time, while easily and quickly being able to stick the head out of the turret, and then go back to the inside again. One needs to find a good combination of using the 3D interface, mouse, joystick and - if available - HOTAS. A question of taste, and routine.

you can also play as the driver or "just" give commands to an AI driver?

You can drive directly from the driver's seats both with your head outside, or buttoned up. Also, night vision goggles are available since 2.538. but the driver's function are simplified, since it is a concession to gamer sonly, no order by their customers. There is no manual gearbox, for example, and no instruments. Manual driving is the one thing that was better done in Steel Fury. In SBP, you can also give speed and direction commands from the TC and gunner's station: conitnues turns left or right, 22°-turns, three speed settings, one revewrse setting at max speed, full stop, continue of preplanned route, find best hull-down position up to 300 m away from current position (the AI does that autonomously, then). The rocking back and forth during combat from a battle position, forward for firing, back during reloading, is done autonomously by the driver. You can 3. control the tank via "remote commands" from exterior view (if that is not deactivated by the mission designer), and you can let the tank follow the preset, preplanned network of routes with embark-conditions attached to them.

Much mission play is done before nthe mission starts: if this sim teaches oyu one ting above all others, than tactically planning ahead. Fail here, and you get blown up faster than Rambo can say amen.

If that is information overload for you, think of it as this: you can define either unlimited degree of freedom for the player how to control the tank's movement, but you can also limit player to just interior stations, just the gunner's seat, or just the TC's seat.

[Skybird]

You're welcome. It seems you stumbled into a first-ever issue, else they already would have let you know the remedy. Bad luck!

You could also ask Codemeter directly: support@codemeter.com