CHESS: Subsim team versus Letum

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, I fire up another chess thread now. Letum maybe wants to be the opponent again, if I got you correct? I recommend that those players considerign themselves to be beginners jpoin in a team there, and discuss their move suggestions - and the reason why they think of that move. It would be nice if Letum waits with his move, until a consensus is there. I will jump in and comment on any erratic thoughts. I will not suggest moves, though, only make you guys start asking the right questions.

It is an experiment, of course. Let'S see how it works out. In best case, we get a lot of communication and hoepefully a very vivid thread.

Is there enough interest to have a second chess thread where tactics and rules and principles get introduced in one essay per item? Anybody knowing his stuff could volunteer to write a posting about his favourite thing. A given opening for example. The tactical use of Zugzwang/compulsory moves. Berger's square.

Kranz, Kurtz, Lance,
your moment to begin with White's first move. Give your ideas behind your suggestions in brief form.

And for heaven'S sake, number your moves! How shouold one refer to your moves if the list already shows 60 half moves?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Good fun! What shall we do first?

[Skybird]

I emailed the other two over their interest. Let'S give Letum some time to react to the other thread and this one.

If nothing happens within some hours, suggest your first move. If Letum does not show up, I'll take his part.

[Letum]

What the......?

I don't like these odds!
But I'm up for it.

I promise not to read any move discussion posted here if you put the move you decide on in large font so I can find it without skim-reading any other move discussion.
*edit* So obviously I won't reply to anything thats not in bold if you do want me to read it.

*edit2*
Ignore everything above! How about the team discusses moves in the old Letum Vs Undersea post and I wont go there.

*edit3* ignore all of the above and read what Skybird said. I am basicaly clueless.

Move 1.
E2-E4

[UnderseaLcpl]

Ok you're white I guess. Apologies in advance for the lengthy discourse that is sure to accompany each move.

[Skybird]

Okay, then Letum plays white, against Lance, and whoever will join.

Black (subsim Team) to make it's move. Make your suggestions. Letum gives some time for the others to react.

And letum, it is okay to read what is written here.this is not so much a duel match but to get bthe starters on track. It is not so much about the result, but to make them think from different perspectives about their moves. By writing their reaosn for their move suggestions, i can show them were they simply think wrong, or have overseen something, or base on false assumptions. I will not give them direct move suggestions.

[Skybird]

Lance suggested 1..../Ng8-f6 in the old and (hopefully shut down) thread.

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

The advantages would be that I could have more freedom to devlop my strategy with my queen and bishop, I would block the forward progress of his pawn, and I would establish a presence in the center of the board.

No, you do not stop the forward movement, in fact, you invited him for an opening called Aljechin defense whose purpose is to provoke the andvance of e4-e5, and make him move d2-d4 and more pawn moves instead of developing his figures. In that opening Black accepts that he makes many moves with his knight as well. Both parties play illogical here, but Black hopes to have a slightly higher advantage in the end by having one "stupidity" less than White - for White creates a centre of pawns that Black plans to attack, showing it's weakness. This is nom opening for beginners, really. It's considered to be very advanced, and you should really stay away from it for the time being.

You do not have a strategy so far, so you are wrong where you say you want to support it by developing your bishop and knight. A strategy is not just a dream ("maybe attack f2"), but it bases on realities that are perceived while they unfold, it takes them into account and tries to influence their future turnout to support the strategy the more the clearer your idea becomes, it is mutual, and works both directions simulatenously. You have the choice, if you knew chess openings, wether or not you would want to push for centre of flanking games, for closed, strategic positions, or more open, tactic ones, but right now you do not know all that, and thus do not have a strategy any different from "keeping in play". Increase your developement options, keep your position safe, protect your pieces, don't lose one, psotion them so that they can mutually support each other, and must not move again in the early phase, if possible.

e7-e5 blocks white'S advance, opens your king'S bishop to move, bringing you one move closer to casteling, and the knight-move you still can do one move later, if you wish -without him being able to answer that with e5, then. It also givs oyu ypur stand in the important centre. With the knight move, you give up the centre. Bad idea.

However, I made the move I did so as to force him to either support his pawn or move it again, either one of which might restrict the development of his strategy. If he ignores the threat, he loses the pawn and I may be able to fork his queen and kingside rook once I support an attack on f2 with my bishop or queen in my 3rd move.

That is a very vague hope. While you outline part of the idea of the Aljechin defense as described (he needs to derfend his pawn or advance it), the rest of the plan has two faults. first, you want to attack f2 that early, that needs you to move the queen o0ut very early, and if he is aware of it coming, he will develope his figures by chasing your queen arroundk, that means oyu maike many moves and dvelope nothing, while he makes moves adn developes his figures. Second, the early mate on f2 is a famous theme - and only absolute beginners fall for it: don't bet your money on your opponent being so weak.

1. e4/e5 2.Qh5??/Nc6 (to guard the pawn on e5) 3. Bc4/Nf6 4. Qf7#

note that I mark the queen move with two ?, saying it is an exztremely weak move.A strategy that depends on your opponent being stupoid and cooperating, is a weak strategy. A strong strategy is one that you enforce with him being unable to do something against it.

1. f3/e6 2. g4/Qh4#

Another famous chess joke. But remember: Black does not play strong here - but White plays very stupid. Don't mix up these two.

[Skybird]

d3 covers the pawn on e4 and opens the line for the bishop on c1. Black can develope figures and at the same time force white to waste time, giving Black advantage. Even an early counterattack towards the centre is possible, but I would recommend to not try that but stick with the basic rules that I outlined.

Originally Posted by Skybird

1. In the opening, move each of your pieces only once, if possible. Do not use one and the same figure to start crisscrossing the board. Avoid openings doing that as a beginner. In the opening, and later, try to make moves that pose a direct or indirect threat to the opponent. If he is busy needing to react to you, he cannot claim the initiative.

2. consider that a bishop or a knight close to the sides of the board controls fewer squares than if positioned in the centre. Corners are worst. Centre fields tend to be of primary importance very often.

3. Open with the king’s pawn e2-e4. In principle, it is the most logical first move possible, d4 already is inferior as long as you cannot handle the hidden intricacies behidn that different set of strategies. So be logical, and stick with e4. Keep away from the other systems. You need experience with the basics first, before trying the exotic stuff.

4. Chess has three dimensions: material, space and time. Each quality can be traded for and transformed into one of the others – but that is an art that is part of the experience that separates good players from not so good ones. Nevertheless even as a beginner you should spend some focus on keeping them in mind all the time, but as a starter you stick to keeping your material together: do not tend to waste material for gaining a vague image of winning “room”. This will become important to master – but later on. Avoid openings that play gambits: that is sacrificing a pawn for winning an advantage in time and winning space. It looks chic and makes the audience go "wowh", but that noise is worth nothign for you if you do not know why you sacrifice that pawn.

5. Move only one, at best two pawns in the opening.

6. Develop the knight before the bishop. Develop the Queen last, by tendency develop all light pieces (bishops and knight) before the heavy pieces (Rook and queen). Develop the king’s side first, Queen’s side second. Always try to keep at least one pawn in the centre (d4, e4, d5, e5).

7. Castle early on, preferably to the king’s side, it moves the king further away from the centre line.

8. check carefully this “ideal” textbook opening and see how the principles outlined until here result in both fast development, and gaining covering space in the smallest amount of time possible: (white moves only): e2-e4, Ng1-f3, Bf1-b5, O-O, d2-d4, Nb1-c3, Rf1-e1. In principle, this is the Ruy Lopez opening, and there is a reason why it is the oldest known chess opening, and maybe the best analysed. If you play it like this, Letum probably will know ways to deal with it, so you maybe will have to accept changes. However, the idea behind the sequence, behind each move is that should give you an idea of how to play chess instead of just moving pieces around.

9. Make sure your pieces do not stand around uncovered. Like an army in real life sees it’s different units and branches interacting (“combined arms”), the pieces should provide mutual cover, and support not many different attacks, but one major plan.

10. Do not waste moves.

11. Isolated pawns are weak. Doubled pawns on one line are weak. Weakest are isolated doubled pawns. the one blocks the other, and none of them can support the other.

12. Try to gain and keep control of open lines and diagonals. On open lines, consider doubling your rooks.

13. Watch out for “pins”, that is a figure cannot move without exposing an even more valuable fig-ure or the king behind it to a threat (in case of the king it is forbidden: such pins can be costly, even lethal). Guard yourself against enemy pins, try to fight the enemy by using pins on him.

14. Watch out for “forks”, that is a pawn or figure moves and then is able to attack several enemy pieces at the same time. A pawn advancing and then threatening both a rook and a knight in his new position, is a pain. A knight moving in and greeting your king with a check while threaten-ing you queen or rook at the same time, is real drama.

15. Watch out for “skewers”, that is like a fork, but with the threatened figures standing in line: the one cannot move away without exposing the other. Obviously, pawns cannot do that.

16. Watch out for discovered attacks: his one pieces moves away and poses a thread somewhere else or not – but behind it, another piece is suddenly posing a threat that before was hidden.

17. Always calculate precisely how many attacking pieces and how many defending pieces focus on a disputed square. Try to overload the opponent’s defence of one field, avoid facing getting overloaded yourself.

18. When it is your turn, always ask yourself: “What threats are there?” Check each of his pieces, and where they can move, and can strike. And when I say “each”, I mean “each”. It’s like a pilot checking all his main instruments once every 30 seconds.

19. A pawn is like 1 point in value, a knight is like 3 points, a bishop is like 3.3 points, a rook is like 5 points, a queen is like 9 points. However, the value of rook and bishop may decrease if the position is closed and lines are blocked – in this case, knights often become a bit more valuable.

20. If you have passed pawns, design your plan to push them. If you have combined passed pawns that can support each other, they potentially can become a force – turn brutal in pushing them (but not easyminded!).

21. You wrote in your last mail you believe in the principle of leading from the front. Well, that is the military world, but it is not you and not in chess! Keep your king well-hidden and protected, away from the centre and away from open centre lines. Do not open “breathing holes” and “escape hatches” (h2-h3, h7-h6) until you have to, it weaknes the pwan structure eventually, and makes you losing one move. Once the figure pieces are gone and you are in endgame with pawns only, however it all changes – then the king becomes a warrior and should lead the fight – move him out fast and early, move him to the centre, he is the most powerful around, then. Let him lead the attack, use him to block the enemy king.

Keep it simple for starters, Lance. Stick with the rules. When to ignore them is stuff for advanced lessons. Four moves recommend themselves as playable, but one of them is to be preferred.

[Letum]

My brain bleeds when I try to read chess tactics. I have only ever played by instinct.
I'm liking my odds less and less.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

I have only ever played by instinct.

What - another Jedi around here...?

I'm liking my odds less and less.

Consider it to be a continuation of our discussions by other means.

[UnderseaLcpl]

I think qd8-f6 would be a good move now. It helps do develop black's ultimate counterattack whilst providing protection for the pawn at e5, whilst simultaneously freeing up the queenside knight for an attack on white's queenside, should the opportunity present itself. It also limits the white queen's mobility.


But perhaps I am too obsessed with gaining the intiative here. Thoughts?

[baggygreen]

If i might interject my newbie thoughts,

I'd be more inclined to move the Bishop from F8-D6. Essentially for the same reasons as USLC pointed out, in that this piece can protect the kings pawn and in doing so free up the queens knight, but moving the bishop has the added advantage that you are a piece closer to castling.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

IBut perhaps I am too obsessed with gaining the intiative here. Thoughts?

Yes. You are too obsessed with the lady. Consider rule #6.


Baggy,

the pawn currently is sufficiently protected. If that is your only argument for Bd6, Kranz' argument why not to move that has more substance. Blocking pawn on d7 from moving keeps bishop c8 locked, and prevents pan d7 from supporting the centre. So, you do not gain the initiative - but you prevent it.

Again, hint for a good move: rule #6.