A legend continues with it's fourth incarnation

Skybird · 10-16-07, 04:33 PM

This is beauty in flight. Enjoy!

http://www.flight1software.com/videos/realairsf260.wmv

This is plain and simple the best addon I know of for planes of this small size. I knew the first version, and currently operate the third version for FS9. They have made it available for FSX now.

If aerobatics is your thing, this is a must-have. Smooth-gauges-programming and flight physics are amongst the best you can find.

GlobalExplorer · 10-17-07, 09:56 AM

It would be nice if you wrote what product you are referring to, so everyone can decide if its interesting for them or not

Chock · 10-17-07, 02:20 PM

It's the SF260, the Flight Simulator version of which is indeed legendary for it's vastly superior flight modelling to most other FS aircraft.

It was originally produced by a freelance team which made it for a company that has recently been folded up, stating that they would no longer be supporting it. Several threads on the AVSIM forum by the original developers urged people not to buy it because of this and the fact that they had not been paid for some development work, so your cash if you bought it would not go to them.

However, it seems that my buddies at Flight1 have stepped in and are now selling it under their banner, so maybe the original devs will see some cash flow their way. Flight1 is my favourite developer for FS stuff and the 260 is certainly a worthy addition to their line.

The real SF260 is an advanced military trainer and many are in private hands too. Most of the 'Dogfight experience' type companies that have electronic cannons and sensors fitted to their aircraft, so you can have a bash at real dogfighting, use the SF260. It's unusual in being a side-by-side two-seater with the P1 pilot's seat being on the right side of the cockpit, this is so that the pilot can use his left hand on the tthottles as he/she would in real modern fighter aircraft.

Chock

FIREWALL · 10-17-07, 02:44 PM

I hope i'm posting this in the right spot as I feel I can get the best answer here.

Do you have to buy a MS flight game to build on and if yes which one and are all the rest add ons ?

Chock · 10-17-07, 03:12 PM

To use the SF260, yes you would have to have a copy of Microsoft's Flight Simulator. If you've never had a copy of it, what you get is an installation that looks like this:

You can see that there are numerous folders which stuff gets added to, for example there is a folder called 'SimObjects', inside that folder, there are several folders, such as 'Rotorcraft' and 'Airplanes'. If you bought the SF260, it would be installed in that folder and when you fired up Flight simulator, it would appear as one of the aircraft you could select and fly.

As standard, Flight simulator includes almost every airport in the world, and scenery for it all too, but much of it is generic 'tiled' stuff (it looks reasonably convincing, but it's isn't exactly what you'd see looking out of the window of a real aircraft flying over that location), which is where photorealistic scenery comes in. You can see that there is an 'Add on scenery' folder, so purchased add-on photorealistic scenery goes in there, and would appear in the simulation when you fired it up. Most of this photo-realistic scenery is similar to what you see on Google Earth.

Some screenshots: The Harrier is a freeware add-on aircraft flying over the default FSX terrain for the Grand Canyon. The ATR-72 Airliner is a payware add-on aircraft. The B-17 is a payware aircraft over the default FSX terrain for Seattle. The DC-3 is a repaint (by me) of the default FS9 DC-3 over photo-realistic terrain of the UK. The cockpit shot is from the B-17 that was over Seattle (and yes, all the switches do work in the cockpit!).

So, you are correct, Flight simulator is a 'base package' which you build on by adding stuff you like. Lots of add-on stuff is freely available, but the really well done stuff (such as the SF260) is payware.

Although the current version of Flight simulator is FSX (i.e. version 10), many people are still using FS9 (also known as FS2004: A Century of Flight). This is because FSX is very graphics intensive, and as a result frame rates aren't that great on mediocre systems with all the graphics whistles and bells turned up. So if you wanted to get into it, FS9 might be a better choice (certainly cheaper if you are just 'dipping your toe into the water'). The other thing to consider is that there are far more add-ons available for FS9 than for FSX (although many work in both versions).

Chock

Skybird · 10-17-07, 04:39 PM

Another point about FS9 that Chock only mentioned on the surface is - money. with the release of FSX, many people were quick to buy it before looking (means I know some who chnaged back to FS9), or stay with FSX, and thus wanting to get rid of their old FS9 and all addons that were unlikely to get compatability patches, but would see complete new developements for FSX. That way you can save a LOT of money when buiynd it second hand. I did like that, and for all the planes and airport sceneries as well as some basic stuff I estimated to have payed around 50-60% less, than if buying it new.

also take into account that even if you have a system that runs FSX out of the box with satisfying frames - if you use scenery addons and complex aircraft, all these things pick away at your frames, some more, some less. And that way you easily could touch the critical frame range again - and faster than you may have imagined.

Microsoft delivers FS as a game, but the fantastic thing about it is that it is modular from A to Z: everything can be changed, replaced, supplemented. From the functions and siplaying of weather and traffic, over flight physics files, cockpit envrionemnts and aircraft models, to environmental appearance. That way you can turn a game into a pretty good simulator.

There are some classic addons on aircraft and non-aircraft
stuff, that also currently get transported from FS9 to FSX for the most - if you are interested, tell us where your interests lay, and we likely have some answers and recommendations.

Beside Flight 1, as Chock mentioned, Aerosoft is the leading developer and publisher of addons, if you visit there site, you can see plenty of screenshots for certain products, sometimes even full sized videos, that may give you an impression:

http://www.aerosoft.com/cgi-local/re/iboshop.cgi?show270

Skybird · 10-17-07, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

It would be nice if you wrote what product you are referring to, so everyone can decide if its interesting for them or not

That's my mean evil character, wanting to trap you and make you being surprised by just wathcing the video - which looks lovely, I think, no matter what plane it is.

Avsim has several in depth reviews of the various incarnations of the SF260. they too are full of praise for it.

FIREWALL · 10-17-07, 07:43 PM

Thany you Chock and Skybird

You both gave me great info with alot of detail. I will be able to make a wise decision now.

I probably go with FS9 and get some addons.

I have IL2 1946 and Janes WWII Fighters. Also play Aces High III once in a while.

I guess I just want something new I can expand on.

I guess ebay is the place to go. If it's okay I'll check back with both of you before I make a purchase so I don't get the wrong stuff.

Thx again Guys Firewall

Chock · 10-17-07, 09:49 PM

Hang on to your wallet! here's a bunch of useful FS add on stuff websites:

www.avsim.com (lots of free stuff in the file library, and home of many useful forums plus my reviews and a few things by me in the file library too! Before you buy anything at all, see if there is a review of it on here and check the forums here for any negative comments on potential purchases. Avsim is THE biggest flight simulator website and if there isn't info on something here, then it's probably not out there. It does have a small online shop, but the shop is pretty limited in scope.)

www.flight1.com (lots of add-ons, generally airliners and private planes, mostly compatible with FS9 and FSX. This company also makes simulation software for real-world pilot training, so as you can imagine, their FS stuff is usually pretty astonishing, check out their Beech King Air B200 if you want total realism, if you are looking for something less taxing but still realistic, check out their Cessna 441 Conquest II [you can find a review of this, by me, on avsim's site])

www.precisionmanuals.com (home of the legendary PMDG Boeing 747 and 737 among others, soon to be home to a fully-featured Airbus too. If you can fly one of these, you could probably get the real thing off the ground too. Their support is appallingly bad for download stuff, so avoid buying downloads from them if you anticipate problems and go for the boxed stuff instead, as authorising their online purchases is a right pain in the ass.)

www.alphasim.co.uk (home to lots of inexpensive add-on classic military aircraft. Not big on interactive cockpits, i.e. if you want every switch to work, these often don't feature that, but they are very cheap and great fun)

www.shockwaveproductions.com (home to obsessively detailed WW2 add-on aircraft such as the B17, Mustang, Spitfire and bf109, P40 Warhawk [which yours truly is currently reviewing for Avsim]. If you want every switch working in the cockpit, these are for you)

www.justflight.com (home to add-ons of all kinds, from helicopters, fighters, bombers, Cessnas etc etc to scenery, plus many utilities to make flying more fun, there's lots of FS9 stuff here, and they often have sales on Thursdays if you buy online, so you can save even more cash! Their support isn't as good as other places [not appalling, but not as good as others])

www.flightsim.com (Rival to avsim which claims to be the world's number one flight sim website [it isn't, however it's probably better for news announcements than avsim] and also home to lots of free stuff, however, access to their file library is not as good as avsim's and isn't laid out very well, still well worth a look.)

www.simmarket.com (good place to browse products, they sell allsorts here, everything from books on how to fly an airliner properly to add on utilities. Well worth a look)

www.flyawaysimulation.com (another online shop worth a look at)

www.aeroplaneheaven.com (another online shop, but with the odd freebie add-on aircraft available for download, worth checking out)

www.fsdownload.com (another freeboie download site)

www.abacuspub.com (This site may look terrible, but it has some nice stuff for FS on it and is also home to FS Design Studio, so if you fancy designing your own aeroplanes and you can't be bothered learning GMax or 3DSMax, then this is worth a look.)

www.saitek.com (the good old joystick manufacturer is currently going into overdrive where flight simulator add-ons are concerned, with lots of interesting products in the pipeline, such as throttle quadrants, etc)

Chock

AFRIKAKORPS · 10-17-07, 11:53 PM

Hey Chock, how is the P-40? It looks amazing.
Do you think you could give me your thoughts on it?

10-16-07, 04:33 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,655 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	A legend continues with it's fourth incarnation This is beauty in flight. Enjoy! http://www.flight1software.com/videos/realairsf260.wmv This is plain and simple the best addon I know of for planes of this small size. I knew the first version, and currently operate the third version for FS9. They have made it available for FSX now. If aerobatics is your thing, this is a must-have. Smooth-gauges-programming and flight physics are amongst the best you can find. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-17-07, 09:56 AM	#2
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	It would be nice if you wrote what product you are referring to, so everyone can decide if its interesting for them or not __________________

10-17-07, 02:20 PM	#3
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's the SF260, the Flight Simulator version of which is indeed legendary for it's vastly superior flight modelling to most other FS aircraft. It was originally produced by a freelance team which made it for a company that has recently been folded up, stating that they would no longer be supporting it. Several threads on the AVSIM forum by the original developers urged people not to buy it because of this and the fact that they had not been paid for some development work, so your cash if you bought it would not go to them. However, it seems that my buddies at Flight1 have stepped in and are now selling it under their banner, so maybe the original devs will see some cash flow their way. Flight1 is my favourite developer for FS stuff and the 260 is certainly a worthy addition to their line. The real SF260 is an advanced military trainer and many are in private hands too. Most of the 'Dogfight experience' type companies that have electronic cannons and sensors fitted to their aircraft, so you can have a bash at real dogfighting, use the SF260. It's unusual in being a side-by-side two-seater with the P1 pilot's seat being on the right side of the cockpit, this is so that the pilot can use his left hand on the tthottles as he/she would in real modern fighter aircraft. Chock __________________

10-17-07, 02:44 PM	#4
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	I hope i'm posting this in the right spot as I feel I can get the best answer here. Do you have to buy a MS flight game to build on and if yes which one and are all the rest add ons ? __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

10-17-07, 03:12 PM	#5
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	To use the SF260, yes you would have to have a copy of Microsoft's Flight Simulator. If you've never had a copy of it, what you get is an installation that looks like this: You can see that there are numerous folders which stuff gets added to, for example there is a folder called 'SimObjects', inside that folder, there are several folders, such as 'Rotorcraft' and 'Airplanes'. If you bought the SF260, it would be installed in that folder and when you fired up Flight simulator, it would appear as one of the aircraft you could select and fly. As standard, Flight simulator includes almost every airport in the world, and scenery for it all too, but much of it is generic 'tiled' stuff (it looks reasonably convincing, but it's isn't exactly what you'd see looking out of the window of a real aircraft flying over that location), which is where photorealistic scenery comes in. You can see that there is an 'Add on scenery' folder, so purchased add-on photorealistic scenery goes in there, and would appear in the simulation when you fired it up. Most of this photo-realistic scenery is similar to what you see on Google Earth. Some screenshots: The Harrier is a freeware add-on aircraft flying over the default FSX terrain for the Grand Canyon. The ATR-72 Airliner is a payware add-on aircraft. The B-17 is a payware aircraft over the default FSX terrain for Seattle. The DC-3 is a repaint (by me) of the default FS9 DC-3 over photo-realistic terrain of the UK. The cockpit shot is from the B-17 that was over Seattle (and yes, all the switches do work in the cockpit!). So, you are correct, Flight simulator is a 'base package' which you build on by adding stuff you like. Lots of add-on stuff is freely available, but the really well done stuff (such as the SF260) is payware. Although the current version of Flight simulator is FSX (i.e. version 10), many people are still using FS9 (also known as FS2004: A Century of Flight). This is because FSX is very graphics intensive, and as a result frame rates aren't that great on mediocre systems with all the graphics whistles and bells turned up. So if you wanted to get into it, FS9 might be a better choice (certainly cheaper if you are just 'dipping your toe into the water'). The other thing to consider is that there are far more add-ons available for FS9 than for FSX (although many work in both versions). Chock __________________ Last edited by Chock; 10-17-07 at 03:32 PM.

10-17-07, 04:39 PM	#6
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,655 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Another point about FS9 that Chock only mentioned on the surface is - money. with the release of FSX, many people were quick to buy it before looking (means I know some who chnaged back to FS9), or stay with FSX, and thus wanting to get rid of their old FS9 and all addons that were unlikely to get compatability patches, but would see complete new developements for FSX. That way you can save a LOT of money when buiynd it second hand. I did like that, and for all the planes and airport sceneries as well as some basic stuff I estimated to have payed around 50-60% less, than if buying it new. also take into account that even if you have a system that runs FSX out of the box with satisfying frames - if you use scenery addons and complex aircraft, all these things pick away at your frames, some more, some less. And that way you easily could touch the critical frame range again - and faster than you may have imagined. Microsoft delivers FS as a game, but the fantastic thing about it is that it is modular from A to Z: everything can be changed, replaced, supplemented. From the functions and siplaying of weather and traffic, over flight physics files, cockpit envrionemnts and aircraft models, to environmental appearance. That way you can turn a game into a pretty good simulator. There are some classic addons on aircraft and non-aircraft stuff, that also currently get transported from FS9 to FSX for the most - if you are interested, tell us where your interests lay, and we likely have some answers and recommendations. Beside Flight 1, as Chock mentioned, Aerosoft is the leading developer and publisher of addons, if you visit there site, you can see plenty of screenshots for certain products, sometimes even full sized videos, that may give you an impression: http://www.aerosoft.com/cgi-local/re/iboshop.cgi?show270 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-17-07, 07:43 PM	#8
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Thany you Chock and Skybird You both gave me great info with alot of detail. I will be able to make a wise decision now. I probably go with FS9 and get some addons. I have IL2 1946 and Janes WWII Fighters. Also play Aces High III once in a while. I guess I just want something new I can expand on. I guess ebay is the place to go. If it's okay I'll check back with both of you before I make a purchase so I don't get the wrong stuff. Thx again Guys Firewall __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

10-17-07, 09:49 PM	#9
Chock Sea Lord Join Date: May 2005 Location: Under a thermal layer in chilly Olde England Posts: 1,842 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hang on to your wallet! here's a bunch of useful FS add on stuff websites: www.avsim.com (lots of free stuff in the file library, and home of many useful forums plus my reviews and a few things by me in the file library too! Before you buy anything at all, see if there is a review of it on here and check the forums here for any negative comments on potential purchases. Avsim is THE biggest flight simulator website and if there isn't info on something here, then it's probably not out there. It does have a small online shop, but the shop is pretty limited in scope.) www.flight1.com (lots of add-ons, generally airliners and private planes, mostly compatible with FS9 and FSX. This company also makes simulation software for real-world pilot training, so as you can imagine, their FS stuff is usually pretty astonishing, check out their Beech King Air B200 if you want total realism, if you are looking for something less taxing but still realistic, check out their Cessna 441 Conquest II [you can find a review of this, by me, on avsim's site]) www.precisionmanuals.com (home of the legendary PMDG Boeing 747 and 737 among others, soon to be home to a fully-featured Airbus too. If you can fly one of these, you could probably get the real thing off the ground too. Their support is appallingly bad for download stuff, so avoid buying downloads from them if you anticipate problems and go for the boxed stuff instead, as authorising their online purchases is a right pain in the ass.) www.alphasim.co.uk (home to lots of inexpensive add-on classic military aircraft. Not big on interactive cockpits, i.e. if you want every switch to work, these often don't feature that, but they are very cheap and great fun) www.shockwaveproductions.com (home to obsessively detailed WW2 add-on aircraft such as the B17, Mustang, Spitfire and bf109, P40 Warhawk [which yours truly is currently reviewing for Avsim]. If you want every switch working in the cockpit, these are for you) www.justflight.com (home to add-ons of all kinds, from helicopters, fighters, bombers, Cessnas etc etc to scenery, plus many utilities to make flying more fun, there's lots of FS9 stuff here, and they often have sales on Thursdays if you buy online, so you can save even more cash! Their support isn't as good as other places [not appalling, but not as good as others]) www.flightsim.com (Rival to avsim which claims to be the world's number one flight sim website [it isn't, however it's probably better for news announcements than avsim] and also home to lots of free stuff, however, access to their file library is not as good as avsim's and isn't laid out very well, still well worth a look.) www.simmarket.com (good place to browse products, they sell allsorts here, everything from books on how to fly an airliner properly to add on utilities. Well worth a look) www.flyawaysimulation.com (another online shop worth a look at) www.aeroplaneheaven.com (another online shop, but with the odd freebie add-on aircraft available for download, worth checking out) www.fsdownload.com (another freeboie download site) www.abacuspub.com (This site may look terrible, but it has some nice stuff for FS on it and is also home to FS Design Studio, so if you fancy designing your own aeroplanes and you can't be bothered learning GMax or 3DSMax, then this is worth a look.) www.saitek.com (the good old joystick manufacturer is currently going into overdrive where flight simulator add-ons are concerned, with lots of interesting products in the pipeline, such as throttle quadrants, etc) Chock __________________ Last edited by Chock; 10-18-07 at 08:45 AM.

10-17-07, 11:53 PM	#10
AFRIKAKORPS Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 104 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Hey Chock, how is the P-40? It looks amazing. Do you think you could give me your thoughts on it?