[makman94]

hello Leitender ,
so nice to hear from you mate as i know that you are very experienced on sensors themes
have a look inside your post for my notices

Originally Posted by Leitender

Hi makman,

after a loooong journey under water your findings about the radar arc are worth to reengage into the technical discussion

To say the first: From my own experience I can confirm your observation about the simulation of the radar arc. The absolutely precise bearing (within 1°) of the target is at the end of the arc, when the radar loses contact and the cone is turning clockwise, like in GWX. But shouldn´t this lead to the conclusion, that the radar arc is to be opened to the left (counterclockwise, beginning from the bearing angle?

if we are talking for the real radars , i think so too, but in sh3 the arc is rendered as i showed at pic

Btw, there must be said that in stock game, the simulation of the radar signals are mirrored. Targets in the west (270°) are shown in the east (90°) and vice versa. But 0° stays 0° and 180° stays 180°, so one cannot observe this bug if the target ist straight ahead, like in the videos This is an old bug, already found in 2005, and fixed in GWX an NYGM. Beyond, IIRC, the radar simulation turns clockwise by default, which means, that the hand wheel has to be turned counterclockwise to match the bearing ring behind the wheel. That´s the reason, why GWX had changed the orientation of the movement.

Nothing is mirrored to any version (stock or Gwx). the devs (at stock) have made a wrong texture (and only the texture) for the radar's bearing. Thats why i am saying at the set-up of the fix to replace the 'cadrane_radio_7' image with the one i included in the fix.
Both radars ANTENAS (i mean in stock and gwx) are turning clockwise and the arc ,at both is rendering at the right side of pointing bearing.Exactly the same thing,nothing different.The only difference they have is the direction of the radar WHEEL is turning. try the fix in both setups (but remember to replace the 'cadrane_radio_7' at stock version and you will understand what i mean.
In my opinion, stock with the correct 'cadrane_radio_7' is more logical. I mean that if the operator is turning the wheel clockwise,for example 20°,you expect to read 20° at the wheel and this is happening now at stock with the correct 'cadrane_radio_7'. (at gwx if you turn the wheel clockwise for 20° ,you read 340°).
both setups show the correct bearings now (becuase in gwx they made the wheel -and only the wheel- to turn counterclockwise).
Anyway, this (the wheel) has less importance as both radar antenas are turning clockwise and both are rendering the arc to the right side of pointing bearing.All i am saying is that stock setup seems the logical one for me.

From the point of view of a "real" simulation, there are a few more things to mention:

The recommended turning rate by the BdU was 2 every minute, which means a sweeping periode of 30s. That was (is) a compromise between reliable recognition of objects (turning as slowly as possible) and a fast recognition (turning as fast as possible). E.g., if the FuMO is used as an air warning system (as it was in reality), an enemy plane, flying 200kn, which is around 100m/s, could approach 3000m within 30s but 5000m in 50s. Regarding the small maximum range of only 7 or 8 km of FuMO29 resp. FuMO30, the remaining time for an emergency dive was 40 to 50s, just enough to get away from the surface and to reach a certain depth under ideal circumstances. With a sweeping period of 50s, that minimum time will be reduced to 20 resp. 30 seconds, what is definitly too less time to reach a safe depth before the plane flies over. Of course, this is a worst case scenario, but if e.g. the signal was recognised with another delay for whatever reason, this could have had been the last contact to be made.

Another thing is: the original bearing precision of the different radar systems were around +/- 2 to 3°. The sweep arc is actually meant to describe this precision. In fact, with that way of determining the position, the "true" ingame bearing precision is 1°, much more precise than in reality.

this is not changed with my recomment tweaks , you can't get an EXACT bearing by the 'clicks' on wheel. Still you have a precision of +/- 1°

Furthermore, you write that the radar "catches only the closest contact". Well, I´m not sure, if this is correct. AFAIK, the Radar man reports every new contact, but only one time, AND if that contact had not been seen earlier by the bridge crew. That´s all what he does. But if you use the radar by your own, you can determine different targets by turning the antenna. The radar is even a kind of multi-aiming, which means that you can watch multiple signals on your display. But this works only if you use a narrow beam to get a more or less precise bearing. Without having experienced with your setting, I believe that with that huge radar arc of 50 degree, you won´t be able to differentiate the bearings between several objects inside the cone.

I had made some tests before releasing the fix and noticed that only the closest target was showing on radar screen.Here take this mission:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/prpg8w...enge+RADAR.rar

in this mission i have placed two ships,one at bearing 0° 4000m and a second one at bearing 45° 11.314 m
Run the mission at your set up ,pay attention to pick the viic/41 (1945) uboat (in order to have the fumo30) and also remember to tweak your fumo30 for ranges till 15000m (in order to be able to have in radar range the second ship too).
On my set ups (gwx and stock) only the first ship is located on radar screen (although both are showing on map screen and radio man informs me for both of them). Now , if i send some torpedos to the first one (straight blind shots) and sink it then ,immediatelly, appears on radar screen the second one at 45° but not before. This behaviour is the same no matter what arc i use. i tried the mission ,even with 2° arc...still the same behaviour.
try the mission and tell me if you can 'see' on radar screen the second ship at 45°. Lets hope to be a simple tweak somewhere that i am missing.


The last thing is your new finding about the maximum elevation. If set to 360° as recommended, the signal gets stable without any interruption. This is a new finding at least for me and this is a huge improvement of quality. Buuuut, I believe the devs made this interruption with intent! Why? In real life, a submarine is the worst radar platform you can imagine. Not only leads the low height of the antenna to rather uncomfortable ranges. Then, at that time, the antenna was mounted fix to the tower or, later, to the elevating holder, but both coupled with the movement of the boat. Due to this, when in higher sea states, the antenna did not only scan the horizon, but also the sky or the bottom. During this up and down and shaking movement, an eventual contact was surely lost, or at least interrupted. IMHO that´s the reason why the devs had put in that interruption: Because the radar should be rather insufficient. And yes, it was.

Maybe it was intended by the devs , i also believe it too but i like it to be stamble.Anyone who like it the other way , simply is not inserting the tweak at the elevation of radar


Nonetheless, with your finding, we maybe could make that interruption sea state dependent. To be honest, at the moment I have no idea to how to do this. So please continue with your SH3 experiments and research, it is always higly interesting to find out, how the game works and thus to find new means to improve its behaviour.

Btw, OT, I love your new environment, but this should be nothing new for you. I use it for many years. Go on makman and with the best greetings

Leitender

my main interest is at the part of the mission i sent you.
it is a mystery why my radar is not catching the ship at 45° (thats why i said that it is a bug).
But you say that is not correct and ,as i know, that you are very experienced on sensors's theme you get me into research again and lets hope your radar to be able to 'see' that ship at 45°