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nematode · 05-04-07, 10:39 PM

Good post Akdavis.

You're absolutely right, the Japanese gunboats in game are river patrol craft and don't belong in the open ocean. As a campaign builder, I'm planning to remove them from open water patrol routes and restrict them to Chinese harbors and rivers, but they would also be reasonably appropriate in Korean ports, as well as southeast Asian places like Manila Bay, Singapore, and Java, to represent small captured Allied vessels used by the Japanese as riverine/harbor patrol boats, like USS Wake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wake_(PR-3)

You are also spot on with the information about the converted gunboats. Before the war began, the Japanese military requisitioned about half of their nation's merchant fleet (one figure I have seen is 3.9 million tons requisitioned out of a total of 6.4 million tons in civilian ownership). From the pool of requisitioned merchant ships in the 1000 to 4000 ton range, the military converted about 90 of them into auxiliary gunboats.

About a hundred other small merchant ships were converted into minelayers or netlayers, as well as hundreds - maybe 600 total - fishing boats converted into very small naval auxiliary warships. More about the fishing boats down post....

Back to the auxiliary gunboats, they were open ocean capable, and were used for patrol, convoy escort, military cargo transport, and also as assault transports during the early war period when the Japanese were invading places. It appears to be the case that when the converted gunboats were used in convoy work or beach landings, that they were typically also loaded up with cargo.

Information on the auxiliary gunboats is hard to come by, especially in English language. But it's accurate to say that no two of them were exactly alike. Here are some links to a Japanese model builder's webpage showing his vision of what some of them looked like:

http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/chojusanmaru.htm
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/kazanmaru.htm
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/pekingmaru.htm
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/shinkomarunigo.htm

Armament would vary from 2 to 4 small guns, like 3-inchers, and some light AA. It's possible that they were equipped with sub detection devices. I've read that the Japanese produced a hydrophone that was designed for installation into a merchant ship hull. Some of them appear to have carried depth charges, but whether that capability was any more advanced than a provision for dumping them over the stern, I have no idea. I don't know if any of them were ever equipped with radar, but my assumption is that they never carried any more sophisticated electronics - apart from sub detection gear - than a radio.

In SH4 terms, they shouldn't be terribly dangerous to an alert skipper, just enough to keep him on his toes. But, it would be really nice to have a converted gunboat for SH4. Any of the small merchant ships, like the Akita Maru, or the Taihosan Maru, could be kitbashed by a 3d modder into a sweet little auxiliary gunboat. I'd do it if I knew how, but I don't. However I would be tickled pink and do somersaults if someone made one

Altho it's a little off-topic, I wanted to mention the converted fishing boats before I signed off. SH3 players will remember the British ASW trawler, a tiny anti-sub vessel. The Japanese had their own rough equivalent to this, as they converted hundreds of fishing trawlers and whalecatcher boats - I've seen a figure of 265 units - into auxiliary subchasers. These would have been 100 to 400 ton boats armed with a small gun and perhaps an AA piece, some depth charges, probably a hydrophone and/or sonar.

As is the case with the converted gunboats, info on the auxiliary subchasers is really hard to come by. But, you can get an idea of what they looked like at http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/whalecatchers.htm

Although the auxiliary subchasers were marginally useful for combat, they were used as convoy escorts, and were very common as ASW patrol boats. I've read a wartime US sub patrol report where the skipper describes many trawlers seen in the area a couple hours after he had sunk a cargo ship right outside of a port, as if to suggest that the trawlers were sent out to "swamp" the area to screen off the sub. In any event, numerically at least, they were an important component of Japan's ASW effort.

The Japanese also converted hundreds of these type of boats into minesweepers and picket boats, like the ones encountered by the Doolittle raider force off the coast of mainland Japan in 1942, see http://www.aa.cyberhome.ne.jp/~museu...u/23nittou.htm I believe that's a pic of Nittou Maru No. 23, which was gunned under by USS Nashville.

There's no model of the Japanese fishing trawler/whalecatcher in SH4, and it would take a 3d modder to either scratchbuild one or maybe bash one out of the Allied trawler, but it would well and truly ROCK to have one of these, some day

05-04-07, 10:39 PM	#3
nematode Seaman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 40 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Good post Akdavis. You're absolutely right, the Japanese gunboats in game are river patrol craft and don't belong in the open ocean. As a campaign builder, I'm planning to remove them from open water patrol routes and restrict them to Chinese harbors and rivers, but they would also be reasonably appropriate in Korean ports, as well as southeast Asian places like Manila Bay, Singapore, and Java, to represent small captured Allied vessels used by the Japanese as riverine/harbor patrol boats, like USS Wake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wake_(PR-3) You are also spot on with the information about the converted gunboats. Before the war began, the Japanese military requisitioned about half of their nation's merchant fleet (one figure I have seen is 3.9 million tons requisitioned out of a total of 6.4 million tons in civilian ownership). From the pool of requisitioned merchant ships in the 1000 to 4000 ton range, the military converted about 90 of them into auxiliary gunboats. About a hundred other small merchant ships were converted into minelayers or netlayers, as well as hundreds - maybe 600 total - fishing boats converted into very small naval auxiliary warships. More about the fishing boats down post.... Back to the auxiliary gunboats, they were open ocean capable, and were used for patrol, convoy escort, military cargo transport, and also as assault transports during the early war period when the Japanese were invading places. It appears to be the case that when the converted gunboats were used in convoy work or beach landings, that they were typically also loaded up with cargo. Information on the auxiliary gunboats is hard to come by, especially in English language. But it's accurate to say that no two of them were exactly alike. Here are some links to a Japanese model builder's webpage showing his vision of what some of them looked like: http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/chojusanmaru.htm http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/kazanmaru.htm http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/pekingmaru.htm http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/shinkomarunigo.htm Armament would vary from 2 to 4 small guns, like 3-inchers, and some light AA. It's possible that they were equipped with sub detection devices. I've read that the Japanese produced a hydrophone that was designed for installation into a merchant ship hull. Some of them appear to have carried depth charges, but whether that capability was any more advanced than a provision for dumping them over the stern, I have no idea. I don't know if any of them were ever equipped with radar, but my assumption is that they never carried any more sophisticated electronics - apart from sub detection gear - than a radio. In SH4 terms, they shouldn't be terribly dangerous to an alert skipper, just enough to keep him on his toes. But, it would be really nice to have a converted gunboat for SH4. Any of the small merchant ships, like the Akita Maru, or the Taihosan Maru, could be kitbashed by a 3d modder into a sweet little auxiliary gunboat. I'd do it if I knew how, but I don't. However I would be tickled pink and do somersaults if someone made one Altho it's a little off-topic, I wanted to mention the converted fishing boats before I signed off. SH3 players will remember the British ASW trawler, a tiny anti-sub vessel. The Japanese had their own rough equivalent to this, as they converted hundreds of fishing trawlers and whalecatcher boats - I've seen a figure of 265 units - into auxiliary subchasers. These would have been 100 to 400 ton boats armed with a small gun and perhaps an AA piece, some depth charges, probably a hydrophone and/or sonar. As is the case with the converted gunboats, info on the auxiliary subchasers is really hard to come by. But, you can get an idea of what they looked like at http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/whalecatchers.htm Although the auxiliary subchasers were marginally useful for combat, they were used as convoy escorts, and were very common as ASW patrol boats. I've read a wartime US sub patrol report where the skipper describes many trawlers seen in the area a couple hours after he had sunk a cargo ship right outside of a port, as if to suggest that the trawlers were sent out to "swamp" the area to screen off the sub. In any event, numerically at least, they were an important component of Japan's ASW effort. The Japanese also converted hundreds of these type of boats into minesweepers and picket boats, like the ones encountered by the Doolittle raider force off the coast of mainland Japan in 1942, see http://www.aa.cyberhome.ne.jp/~museu...u/23nittou.htm I believe that's a pic of Nittou Maru No. 23, which was gunned under by USS Nashville. There's no model of the Japanese fishing trawler/whalecatcher in SH4, and it would take a 3d modder to either scratchbuild one or maybe bash one out of the Allied trawler, but it would well and truly ROCK to have one of these, some day Last edited by nematode; 05-04-07 at 10:59 PM.