[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I would have to disagree with your opinion on level actions they where a revolutionary leap in technology and in certain battles made a huge difference.Case in point the Battle of Little Big Horn the US Army mainly had carbine Sharps rifles a single shot breech loader.The Sioux who also used a good number of firearms but they really liked Winchester and Henry lever actions which by the the US Army never adopted a lever action but it was not because the design was unsound they thought troops would expend ammo to quickly.

Well you are right...I can't argue with that because it's true. It was a technological breakthrough...but I just never liked them.

Perhaps the particular rifle you had was the problem I have not really heard of the issues you mention with most level actions unless of course something was wrong with them.

I think it was mostly just the calibers involved in my experience with lever action. Mostly I was using .44, .45 Colt, and 30-30 when I was looking at them. I ended up using the .45 for hunting because it was a good gun to start with in 2nd Grade. It had virtually no recoil...another problem was the range..

I think it comes down just to personal experience. I have never liked them too much...but I understand that some people get them to work great.... Me? I had double feeds every once in a while and the round would sometimes jam in between the magazine tube and the chamber. At that point, you have to take the spring out of the magazine tube and work it out of there. It just wasn't reliable compared to the bolt action guns I had used on the range. To this day, I prefer bolt action guns. I've also gotten very fond of the Semi Autos....ever since that day Dad took me out with the SKS, 10/22, etc.

Bolt Action rifles are just awesome though...Mosin Nagant, Springfield, Karabiner 98 and all the way up to the M40A3 and beyond.

Lever actions where an important step towards fully self loading rifles.

Can't argue with that statement at all.

The more impressive thing about the Sten gun is that is pretty much made up of scrap metal and it could be field stripped in seconds which allowed insurgents to easily hide them.Sten guns only cost about $10.00 a pop to produce which is pretty cheap.I have not heard before that the Sten could use MP-40 mags before.

IIRC, they did that so they could make hundreds of the guns to deploy an they wouldn't have to worry about ammo because they could use captured enemy ammo and the budget and building materials since it's just basically stamped out of a sheet of metal. I know the Sten was used in the early SOF of the war. It would make sense to put that in as an extra feature if they came across the enemy's ammo or when they run out.

I always thought it was a cool feature and an even cooler gun.

Not true by any means.You can learn to operate any firearm they really are not that complex because the person who may use it could be pretty stupid.You do not need to understand basic math or read and you could be taught in a few hours how to operate and maintain any small arm.Most soldiers at some point are trained on several weapons including enemy ones once they have done that they know enough to be able to operate and maintain any firearm they encounter.Any elite soldier is expected to be able to use any weapon be it an M-4 or some farmers old bolt action rifle.

It was just something I read. I wasn't sure if it was true. I know that SOF guys train with the enemy's weapons...and tbh Small Arms aren't hard to learn to operate...like you say.

Elite Soldiers are probably expected...but I wonder about Private Benjamin over here. What about these guys?

I know that you aren't supposed to ditch your weapon...ever. That was in many-a-book that I've read. Brandon Webb talks a lot about SEAL training in his excellent book. He was re-assigned to a different Platoon which was notorious for screwing up. One of the men actually dropped his MP5 out of the helo on a VBSS (Visit Board Search and Seizure) mission. He just picked it up off the deck of the ship and kept going. In a situation where you have nothing left...(I.E. You actually do lose it or it breaks or is damaged) and you have no other choice to use the enemy's weapons I can see it being okay...but another part of that thing I read was to stick to the weapon you trust. Stick to the one that you know has been cleaned and that you know you can use proficiently. Let's say the enemy is Germany. Yes, you may know your way around a G36....but when was it last cleaned? Will it jam or overheat? Do you trust it to keep you alive? What if it's something like the MG3 that operates a little differently than what you're used to? If you're an elite, you might know how it works...but if you're Private Benjamin...

I don't know. Some of this might be correct to a certain extent. I can't remember for the life of me where I saw that...it actually might have been Deadliest Warrior when the SOF guys were on there.