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Old 12-16-18, 02:35 PM   #8789
Catfish
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Re Jim, sorry i had not enough time to react to the answer yet

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I'll do my best to answer the above whilst readily admitting I'm pro Brexit.....
Who would have thunk lol
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Patience with May eventually came to an end when Parliament (who are sovereign on such matters) grew tired of her weakness and inability to negotiate an acceptable deal, furthermore giving the nation a sense of a bullying position by the EU.
I see no weakness with May. What is an acceptable deal, what exactly does England want? "Nebulous" is exactly the word that describes England's "position". What is this position? The EU's position encompassing that of 26 other nations have been clear from day one. The only thing that changed is getting the demand down to 39 billions, from the former 100, as if that was nothing. Lots of projects will not be finished now because of this concession, including some in Ireland, Scotland, and England. A lot of countries are not amused at all about this concession. They will have to pay, because of your brexit.
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The deal which would have been put before Parliament meant the UK would lose any negotiating and voting rights at the EU policy making entities, would have to abide by any decisions made by said countries and pay approx. £40 billion for the priviledge....REALLY!! So, nothing in effect would change and the cost was far too high anyway.
The UK leaves the EU and wants to keep voting rights. England has signed treaties for 7-year projects that will end in 2020, and this is what England has signed, officially, in those treaties. The European Union is based on the rule of law. England does not pay for a "priviledge", it pays 60 billions less than signed for, to finish projects it itself initiated, together with 27 other nations, and sure not for voting rights! That England keeps its voting rights until 2020 is ok in my book, but surely not further. And this possibility has nothing to do with paying, though the EU would be entitled to cancel the vote due to the break imho.

As i see it the english brexiters give a rat's anus about treaties and what they call friends and allies. They want to get out and do not care for consequences. If England wants to impose tariffs the EU will act accordingly. But it is not about tariffs, it is about holding back goods for days and weeks due to customs, because quality and seal is not longer guaranteed. All will be harder, all will be more expensive, and i cannot imagine to see any people benefit from that.

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I can't help but wonder what the smaller member EU states (of whom there is a majority) will make of this because it is the larger countries who this will impact on most (all the net contributors) funnily enough.
This will happen when there is no deal. I take it those smaller countries will be really happy [/sarcasm] when England pulls that stunt.

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As for the backstop, the UK will not put any physical border in place, the Irish are equally as adamant so let the EU decide how far they want to interfere with British teritorial land.
Now it is suddenly British territorial land, and the EU decides? Nope. It is not the EU that may erect any hard border between the Irelands, but Ireland and England. Alone. I wonder how Ireland thinks about what England wants.

You say the threat to leave NATO should not be taken too seriously? As for threatening to leave, i saw that coming since brexit. I just wonder what took them so long for this glorious idea. Maybe it is high time the EU rethinks its own military, if nations can just drop their commitment. Maybe the US is next, no one knows what can be expected from someone like Trump. Trust is being built in decades, but it takes months to destroy.

Cordial relations are good and well, just what do you think the Europeans's reaction would be when England just breaks out of a union that had become self-evident for decades for young people, for science and trade? Sympathy? Cordial relations, well. Maybe in a few years when the next generation does not remember exactly what happened?

You are right with the backstop. The Irish border has been the problem from day one, and everyone knew and knows it. the EU has made it clear from day one: "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it."
Just what is the UK's position, or better England's, on that matter? How do you intend to solve this problem? Yes, it is your problem. It is not the EU's task or even in its reach, capabilty or having a right to do that.
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[...] I must say in particular that of the EU is not projecting a positive image of itself on the world stage.
Well "the EU" has mostly been portrayed in a bad light by some, and if you think about who is being served most by this portrayal you know by whom and why.
Regarding "bad light" it seems the world right now gets exactly that picture of England, or better its parliament. I still hope for "the best" (impossible after brexit), or at least for a reasonable outcome, but i have no idea how England wants to solve an impossible situation.

Good article, by the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-after-brexit
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Last edited by Catfish; 12-16-18 at 05:23 PM.
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