[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I just don't consider it to be a blanket excuse for poor products/support.

Its not, We had a great "vanilla" out of the box product with SH3. But, we were going from SH2... to a product far superior to its predecessor.

We have not had a subsim far superior to its predecessor in SH4, SH5 or SHO

Originally Posted by TorpX

Ok, but how old is your stepson? Young boys often do not naturally take to activities that are slower paced, and require strategy and patience. Many consider chess to be boring, but the game has managed to survive somehow.

19 years old, and a lover of mathematics - someone you think would enjoy the idea of plotting an attack solution, mashing the fire button, and seeing the fruits of his strategy laden labors in the explosion of an ammunition ship.

Yet alas he doesnt seem to enjoy it

we have to accept that we are the minority, and there are few in the industry that cater to the minority

Originally Posted by TorpX

A understand the argument about more people eat hamburgers, than eat filet mignon, but those who do, don't have to settle for rotten, parasite infested cuts.

Well in that scenario you are comparing apples to oranges... or more precisely fast food burgers to a premium cut of steak

quality aside... companies like ubisoft arent looking at what Goldenrivet, or TorpX or SailorSteve wants. they have a business to run. Ubisoft is looking at a LOT of sales data telling them what types of games most buyers are buying. I dont know where Submarine Simulations sit on the list... but im betting its not in the top 10... probably not even in the top 20

so their efforts focus on those types of games which is why we end up with garbage

Originally Posted by TorpX

I think there is a vein of complacency that runs through the software industry in general. [Yes, you too Microsoft.] They don't seem to want to put out a first-rate product; as if they don't really need to.

and you're absolutely right, but the vein of complacency doesn't stop with the software / gaming industry. Complacency affecting the bottom line and the end product can literally be found in almost ANY industry these days.

I hate for my posts to come across that im defending Ubisoft, because really... im not... im just telling it how it is.

Sooner or later, a company is going to have to specialize in making and selling to the simulation crowd exclusively OR we are going to have to crowd fund serious capable designers to create an easily modifiable easily supported subsim for us.

the alternative is the death of the simulation game genre... a genre on its last leg

want proof?

lets just look at what a simulation gameis: as simulation game attempts to copy some facet of real life via game software that the user plays in order to recreate a real life interaction or function.

Go to steam and look under the "simulation game genre"

an overwhelming majority of those simulators are dumbed down to the point of being ridiculous - or dont even belong in the category at all.

most of them are as realistic a representation of their respective activities as the old arcade game "Burgertime" is a realistic representation of working at a fast food joint.

why are these games in the sim genre this way?

game manufacturers are trying to appeal to a wider audience by making the game more approachable and easier to pick up and run with. Simulation games when i was a kid required a lot of reading, studying and learning before achieving any skill capable of making the simulation perform as it should.

we live in the instant gratification era and folks like you and I are surrounded by instant-gratification-zombies... as long as there are more of them than there are us the kinds of games that are dominating the market right now will continue to do so indefinitely